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Post by kliff on Mar 24, 2010 19:29:39 GMT -5
WHAT! They sent you USED PARTS! As much as I've always said good about them....I now rescind....what a bunch of jerk-offs! Warranty means NEW effin' parts. They'll get no more recommedations from me!
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Post by sunrider on Mar 24, 2010 20:10:00 GMT -5
I did not adjust the cam chain tensioner. I thought I did, by loosening the tension screw and then just barely keeping it in, but I just read a better tutorial than the manual I used, and I did not do what was in that instruction set (remove screw, hold spring and tensioner by hand while threading boltss, THEN inserting screw). I hope I haven't destroyed the cam chain If I did, do you know if this kit would fit my scoot? Not that I can afford it, just trying to figure out what to start aiming for in the (hopefully) not-too-distant future... www.partsforscooters.com/180cc_kit_gy6#MP08 150cc Bashan GES 157QMJ engine currently...
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Post by Rebel on Mar 25, 2010 11:58:50 GMT -5
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Post by sunrider on Mar 25, 2010 16:16:40 GMT -5
That was kinda why I was thinking the all-inclusive kit, so I wouldn't have to bore the case, lol... Really, though, I am getting ahead of myself... I'm so new, an upgrade kit would be a waste... I'd rather get this right, with the new parts I do have... I don't /believe/ I've trashed everything yet, though time will tell. I'm gonna go pick up a hone and see if that helps, I have it on two sources so far that that is very likely my problem, I did not hone it. www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/3257 But, is this a suitable hone? Is it too large? Would a 54mm be too small? I have a 157QMJ engine,
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Post by Rebel on Mar 25, 2010 16:37:28 GMT -5
That tool might work, i couldn't really understand what size it is, it needs to be able to go down to a bore about 1 & 1/2 inches. This is a link to a traditional hone tool, if you have a local Harbor Freight you might get this; www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97164bore on that is 39mm right? this one is another option; 39mm is just about 1.535 inches so the other might be just a bit too big this smaller one goes up to 2 & 1/2 inches and is only $5.99 www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97163While I think it is a good idea to hone it, I don't think that it not being honed is going to cause the kind of oil burning you have described. I have never put a motor together and not honed it first though and I could be wrong on that, my impression is that you would have some oil burning, not a lot. I would also hope that the GES people would have sent you an install ready cylinder. don't forget new gaskets for the re-assemble, the old ones are not re-usable.
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Post by Rebel on Mar 25, 2010 17:23:46 GMT -5
corrected an error,
39mm equals 1.53543 inches, so the big one is just too big, good news is the smaller one is much cheaper
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Post by sunrider on Mar 25, 2010 17:26:10 GMT -5
Actually, I stand corrected. My engine id is: 1P57QMJ08CF7280 My bore is 57.4mm with 57.8mm stroke, according to my chowner's manual.
HOWEVER, this is the manual that tells me my valve clearance should be .05mm intake and .06mm exhaust, where I had it following the rebuild. I adjusted those yesterday both to .004 inches.... That's a pretty big difference!
I will get some calipers on it tomorrow to be sure, but if it is a 57.4mm bore, should I get the 4" HF kit? I have a Ridgid 2-speed drill with variable speed trigger... I have to check how many RPM is low speed. How many RPM should I run the 4" HF kit? How long should I run it? I've never done this either...
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Post by Rebel on Mar 25, 2010 17:30:11 GMT -5
.004 is what a lot of people use, i don't think it would kill the motor, and I might have gone off on a 50cc tangent by mistake, didn't you send me to a link for a 180cc upgrade, y bad big time, you need the larger hone and I need to stop reading so many posts that my head gets off track.
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Post by sunrider on Mar 26, 2010 8:40:38 GMT -5
Ok, got it tore back down this morning, and I found a culprit... Kliff was correct about messing up my upper chain guide by not releasing the tensioner Part of the plastic apparently tore off into the piston / cylinder and has been stroking up and down with the piston, left nice smears everywhere. Here's a link to today's photos www.flickr.com/photos/37743438@N07/?saved=1And here's what I need to figure out next - how to replace? www.flickr.com/photos/37743438@N07/4464851090/
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Post by Rebel on Mar 26, 2010 15:51:23 GMT -5
Yup, you need a new chain guide, ow is the chain and the sprockets. I don't think any plastic can easily get into the combustion chamber from the guide, that black is probably carbon from all the smoking it was doing.Now pull the cylinder off and check out the bore, piston and rings. A cylinder should look like it has been sanded for the rings to properly seat, you were going to hone it anyway though.
You can clean the black off with a wire brush, try with a brass wire brush first, solvents may help.
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Post by sunrider on Mar 26, 2010 16:48:10 GMT -5
I'm heavily considering doing the whole upgrade instead, next week... I was looking at this, cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GY6-180cc-engine-long-case-kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem335b77e89eQQitemZ220577917086QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesBut, I'm wondering, do I have to swap out my lower engine innards into the new one if I get this kit? I don't see that it says there's a crankrod or gears included... Messaged the seller to find out... But, I was wondering if maybe someone is familiar with this seller? It would be ideal if I could order this with the two sides (and everything between them) all put together, lol, but I doubt that'll happen at THAT price, which is about the extent of my budget for the next few months... If I went that route, aside from a flywheel puller, anything else special I would need toolwise?
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Post by Rebel on Mar 27, 2010 0:18:03 GMT -5
Yes you will need to use a lot of parts from your motor on that one too, it is a good price for that kit though. Again is it set up for the kind of brakes you have?
That seller only has about 11 people that have rated him, most of his feedback is from repeat buyers, none was negative about him.
Honestly, if this is the limit of your money to play with this scooter, I'd consider just replacement parts, learn how to do this before you tackle a complete disassemble and rebuild, next Fall consider doing this big of a project so you have all Winter to do it before you ride again. If you dive into it with all your play around money and it goes bad on you, you are then screwed and have to go into debt to have transportation.
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Post by sunrider on Mar 27, 2010 16:48:10 GMT -5
You're right. That's what I keep trying to tell myself, learn first, get it right first, instead of sinking all my money into something I dunno how to do yet! I have a lot more to thank you for though! I fixed it! Got rid of the smoke! My new(er) piston, when it got rubbed by the chain tensioner, received some nice gashes in the side, right across the oil control ring. Flecks of aluminum were keeping the oil ring from adjusting / moving... I tried cleaning it, but it looked pretty bad down the side, I'll post some pics tonight... So, I looked back at the old piston. It had some nice gouges in the face, and a few of them were right on the corners. I sanded those down a bit, and any areas that were sticking up (it had impacted multiple times pieces of the old exhaust valve seal. Actually, it still looked new, unlike my carbon-coated newer piston. So I installed everything back in, with .008" and .010" ring gaps. Got my shroud and tensioner installed correctly, started her up, and saw a tiny bit of smoke. Throttled, more smoke, but not as much as before. Decided to put some load on, and the smoke disappeared 1/2 mile later!! Thank you so much for the guidance Rebel, and Bashan, and Kliff!!! This has been a great learning experience.
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Post by Rocketdog on Mar 27, 2010 18:44:33 GMT -5
That was kinda why I was thinking the all-inclusive kit, so I wouldn't have to bore the case, lol... Really, though, I am getting ahead of myself... I'm so new, an upgrade kit would be a waste... I'd rather get this right, with the new parts I do have... I don't /believe/ I've trashed everything yet, though time will tell. I'm gonna go pick up a hone and see if that helps, I have it on two sources so far that that is very likely my problem, I did not hone it. www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/3257 But, is this a suitable hone? Is it too large? Would a 54mm be too small? I have a 157QMJ engine, I think Kliff mentioned he bought a case bore. So if you want to put a 61mm bbk on it, there you. I tend to lean to Rebels side of the argument about the 63mm being a bit thin. So, get a stroker crank for the 61mm. 2mm on a 61 will give you 174.7. But that 2mm worth of stroke will give you serious grunt that can't be reckoned in plain cc's. Autotech has one. I've been thinking about just that myself. Not on my commute scoot. I want that for everyday. On another yet to be determined scooter. RD
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Post by kliff on Mar 27, 2010 19:16:06 GMT -5
Notice in the pics, the top veiw of the piston, side next to the cam chain tunnel, how it appears cleaner, almost washed of carbon deposits. That is because it reduced the deck clearance on that side of the combustion chamber. Look closely at the pick of the head, same side, it's clearing up too.
Why? wasted crank bearing. When the tensioner started going, parts went through the bearing....iinstanstant bearing loss. It will only get worse now. Rod bearing and other main, will also have sustained damage, due to the crank rocking on the one bad bearing.... so in a nutshell, the crank assy is now toast too.
The head should clean up, though it would be adviseable to completely dissassemble, and lap the valves, minimum. Piston, cylinder, rings, crank, cam tensioner, and both cam tensioner followers, oil pump....junk! trash 'em and start over.
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