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Post by kliff on Nov 1, 2009 16:32:27 GMT -5
Hey Kliff, Doug (in San Diego) and I are getting together in a couple of weeks to install your valve springs and camshaft. Can you give some pointers on porting/polishing? When you say you're "tulliping" something, I don't know what that means. I don't think I want to turn my head into a masterpiece, I just want to know what things to look out for, and how to do some moderate tweaking. I have a $10 generic dremel from Harbor Freight... I know polishing improves the speed gases fly through it, but how do you actually polish it? I'm assuming you polish the chamber and exhaust, is that it? What substance, what kind of rag, how do you do it, etc etc. Port matching ought to be pretty simple, but I can see how porting can turn into a bad self-given haircut too, always cutting off more and more until you're bald. Thanks brother. Port Matching: This can be more tedious than any other procedure, because if you can't get your finger down in there to FEEL the final result, then you'll need to buy a bore scope to see what youve done. You are trying to match to holes to within .001" of perfect alignment, when you can only grind and polish one, at a time, then refit, and recheck.... I've spent as much as 6 hours on one intake, usually no less than 3.5hrs. Tulipping valves: refers to lightenning the valve on the back side, and putting a pretty flowing champagne glass profile to it whem finished. Stock you'll see where the stem was machened then stopped, leaving a swirl type ridge or raised area... all that has to go, out to the seat itself. Valve is chucked in a lathe and turned anout 2000 rpm, and the Roto-Z set on about 25K with an orange 1/4" diameter tear drop, is used to free hand this, which also leaves a swirl poilshed pattern, that actually induces a spin to the incoming, or outgoing charge. Heat the valve seat face, and ya gott reface the valve, either in a valve machine, or set the lathe up for a perfect 45* cut. Porting: Every set of heads, seems different, unless you get lucky, and find some by the same manufacturer. I usually know the carband exhaust to be used, the cam, and then I'll study the head about as UNSCIENTIFIC as you can get. I'll take pics, look at the ports from varying angles, feel the ports, put some auto transmission fluid in the port, and blow it out, from severral distance, and angles to see what it does on the port walls, where there are bumps and ridges, cast lines, all sorts of neet stuff shows up. then I start. Port matching first, and I NEVER go for mirror finish in an intake, a smoth 320 grit final on the intake works great. Exhaust, I go for a semi polish in the bowl area, immediately below the valve, and depending on the exhaust, I may or may not, carry it to the port exit....usually I'm more of an 800 grit finish there, easily aceived with the rubber balls. I usually expend 3 sanding rolls, 4 polishing balls completely, and 10-25% wear on my carbide bits.... Where to start..... I'm not going to say it can't be done with a 10.00 HF tool, and beleive me I understand what it means, when that's all you have. But I use an arsenal of tools, electric, and pneumatic... 5.5amp Roto-Zip, with flex shaft, for 1/8" shank tools 15-35000rpm Blue point 1/8" pneumatic, 25-45,000rpm 3 separate 1/4" pneumatics 25-7500 rpm All loaded with different tools, from decreasing size sand paper rols, 80 grit>320 grit Carbide steel rotary files(burs) 1/16"-14" diameter, tear drop, ball, and pear shaped($7.97ea, > $ about $80.00 EACH) Aluminum and iron oxide inpregnated hard tubber polishing ball, pears, tear drops,and barrels(1>4.00 each) Neway valve seat cutting tool...to recut the seats in the head, whe you accidentally touch a seat with a running bur... ( about $300.00 in the kit now, many different sizes for different engines, a basic kit would be close to 140.00)
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usfmarine
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SJA, Scooter Rebellion
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Post by usfmarine on Nov 1, 2009 17:08:30 GMT -5
Well, my job just got easier, I am going to install the new cam/springs and put her back together I certainly don't have the time necessary to do the procedures you described. Thank you for such a detailed response. I'm definitely going to bookmark this for when I have a few days (and a couple hundred $$$) to kill. Did you do all of those things for Rebel's new engine?
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Post by kliff on Nov 1, 2009 17:15:12 GMT -5
Yup....and a WHOLE LOT MO'! I molested that lil 59mm motor gooooood!
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usfmarine
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Post by usfmarine on Nov 1, 2009 22:52:34 GMT -5
Ha ha. Sounds like I should send my stock head to you... I don't know if I can afford the Kliff hourly rate though... Whatever Rebel is paying you, it isn't enough for how awesome it's going to be.
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Post by kliff on Nov 2, 2009 6:07:16 GMT -5
If I didn't enjoy doing this, I'd be in business charging those 50-80.00/hr shop rates. But I do enjoy it, and time spent on a head, or an engine is irrelevant to me, 4 hours, 10, 20....when I like the final result it's done... LMAO, I didn't have too much going while I was working on Doug's engine..... probably got between 40 or 50 hours in that little booger. Enjoyed every minute too. Once you figure parts in, and shipping, Dougie paid about ........nah, I'd be shooting myself in the foot....LOL!
The price is still 125.00, including return shipping, on your head. If I have to supply the head, it'll be more, want the spring, 37.00 more.
You've already got the springs, so send them, and the head, with intake, and a M.O. for $125.00, 2-3 business days after I receive it, it will be headed home, USPS Priority
It's a back yard job, by a cranky ole phart, so don't expect mirror polishing, I simply go for what works, no bling included. LOL!
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Post by kuzikood on Nov 2, 2009 10:17:52 GMT -5
hey kliff how about some diamond encrusted ports man ....... i gotta have the bling ! nah lol but after your explanation maybe people see why head builders and engine blue printers charge so much usually its half art and half science and all know how, its like we used to say in construction when someone asked us how much to do some thing , its gonna be 500 bucks , 5 dollars for the nails , 95 dollars to put them in, and 400 dollars for know ing where to put them in at
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Post by Rebel on Nov 2, 2009 22:39:40 GMT -5
OK, the motor has landed at my house. No holes in the box, no crushed corners, is pretty intact. So I'll open it up and post pictures in a day or two.
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Post by kliff on Nov 3, 2009 6:33:42 GMT -5
Thanks for letting us know, sorry I missed you last night, but it was a rough day, so I hit the sack early.
Every time I have shipped an engine, over the years, awaiting the "all's clear," it arrived, and the container is intact, those are always probably a harder wait for me, than the customer.
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Post by kliff on Nov 7, 2009 17:59:01 GMT -5
No pics yet?
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Post by Rebel on Nov 8, 2009 11:38:23 GMT -5
sorry, I've been negligent, I picked up a part time job and it has been taking up some of my time, part of it anyway. I'll get r done this after noon.
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Post by Rebel on Nov 8, 2009 20:14:29 GMT -5
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usfmarine
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Post by usfmarine on Nov 9, 2009 1:58:26 GMT -5
If you ever have a reason to take the head off be sure to take some photos of Kliff's magic on that thing.
Mikuni DF-44 fuel pump... nice.
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Post by kliff on Nov 9, 2009 6:16:18 GMT -5
I made up the dipstick/therm, and included it, but the pump, kick start, coil, and top engine mount(still tied down in those pics) you paid for, and were included in the shipment to me with the engine. I figurred it wouldn't matter when you got 'em, just want to be sure you got 'em, so I held 'em back for this one shipment.
I would have had it looking better, but those road salts from up North play Hell with Chinese aluminum..... I tried Simple Green, > Brake Cleaner, and parts like the Valve cove never changed appearance..... sorry.
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shiftless
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Post by shiftless on Nov 9, 2009 12:35:11 GMT -5
If you ever have a reason to take the head off be sure to take some photos of Kliff's magic on that thing. Mikuni DF-44 fuel pump... nice. I've got a few pics of Kliff's headwork he did for me in my photobucket album I'll try to post em tonite 4 ya if you want
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Post by Rebel on Nov 9, 2009 12:41:15 GMT -5
My experience making aluminum look nice has been that you just got to get the polisher out and buff it up. Now, I'm not worried about the pretty on here much at all. I might just paint the valve cover with something to make it shine. i might just leave it alone. If and when I do something, I'll fill you in on it.
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