jmkjr72
contributing staff
Commander 132nd Northern Cav. Division
Posts: 2,779
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Post by jmkjr72 on Jun 14, 2011 9:12:59 GMT -5
thats the first thing i add when i mod any scooter cheap insurance
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noday
Non-Com
"Sparky" Electronics Research and Development Officer
Posts: 90
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Post by noday on Jun 14, 2011 17:57:26 GMT -5
or get a cheap a/f gauge and patch it into the circuit.
true, before anyone says crap, they just bounce around, in a FI system, like the one OP has....
however if it always reads lean, you know you are headed for trouble.
re: cht.... very little data that I can find for air cooled 4t scooter engines.
looks like cheapest that uses the plug circle probe sender is in the $100 + range.
an OBX gauge + sender is $30, but uses a screw in sender that looks like a car water temp sender.
I know Brent has a page on drilling into the head fins and installing the sender there... however I could never find any related user threads on any of the proboards scooter forums as to how well it worked & if it was useful at all.
general web searches lead to pages on aircraft inflight tuning stuff & near nothing on air cooled scooter engines.
on scoot/Doc there are a few threads measuring oil temps that imply oil temps up to 250DF are usual temps and more or less safe ( those threads were not about 50/80cc engines but larger ones)
any way, I continue to follow this thread with interest & look forward to the opinions of others and comments.
by my count of the 3 installed, by forum posters
the 1 on a stock 50cc seems to work with small issues of excessive current draw from the electric fuel pump.
OP's has crashed now x 2.
the one on the 150cc trike is kind of lost in limbo with no recent posts.
the sellers forum has never gone online.
so we are waiting, waiting, waiting to see how this works out.
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Post by Rebel on Jun 14, 2011 18:27:08 GMT -5
Did you include the installation on the wc 2T posted here? One advantage to the wc is that it does have a temp gauge. You could always do spot measurements with something like this; www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-laser-thermometer-96451.htmlI'm thinking thought that any attached temp gauge is going to have a little error, but having a reference from normal operating temp would give you an idea when it was going to high.
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jmkjr72
contributing staff
Commander 132nd Northern Cav. Division
Posts: 2,779
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Post by jmkjr72 on Jun 14, 2011 20:27:33 GMT -5
yeah if i hadnt been busy with boy scouts i would be out riding the crap out of my fi converted 2 stroke
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noday
Non-Com
"Sparky" Electronics Research and Development Officer
Posts: 90
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Post by noday on Jun 17, 2011 6:18:44 GMT -5
yes, I missed jmk's thread. read parts here & on 49ccScoot but did not get past the LC part.
jmk has the same issue as Mainepeace, the electric fuel pump draws a bit more than the stock stator supplies.
looks like perhaps stator, flywheel and rectifier upgrades will be needed.
on the 139qmb, it may be as simple as swapping from a 6 to an 8 pole stator and flywheel.
a stator upgrade on jmk's zuma may be more difficult because of parts availability.
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Post by theswede on Jun 17, 2011 9:20:43 GMT -5
Noday, I would apriciate if you could post a link to an 8-pole stator that fits the 139QMB. I am unable to find one, all I find are for the 157QMJ engines.
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Post by Rebel on Jun 17, 2011 10:49:33 GMT -5
there are several on ebay; 8 pole
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Post by theswede on Jun 17, 2011 10:57:29 GMT -5
Uh.. Seems I confused things. I was looking for anything better than 8-pole, sorry. There's an 11-pole for the 157QMJ, but I have never found one for the 139QMB.
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noday
Non-Com
"Sparky" Electronics Research and Development Officer
Posts: 90
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Post by noday on Jun 17, 2011 13:15:54 GMT -5
I started a new thread about links to threads in another forum about converting from AC/DC to full DC.
from what i read, just a DC conversion of an 8 pole stator may provide enough 12V power to run this new EFI system without charging problems.
the limiting factor seems to me to be, not the 8 pole stator, itself, but rather the power (watts) that the rectifier/regulator can handle.
the stator conversion is free & so one just needs a new rectifier.
The threads I read imply that you can use a 11pole stator from a 157QMJ on 139QMB.
however, I do not know if the bolt holes line up for the stator & if the 11 pole flywheel will fit the crankshaft on the 50cc.
EDIT: was just over at scooterdoc & there is a new thread about PJ's scoot
it says PJ has a CY50-a with a 11 pole stator done by rapidjim
the CY50-A is a 1p39qmb, so it certainly looks like an 11 pole stator swap is possible for a 50cc
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Post by theswede on Jun 17, 2011 13:35:28 GMT -5
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jmkjr72
contributing staff
Commander 132nd Northern Cav. Division
Posts: 2,779
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Post by jmkjr72 on Jun 17, 2011 18:37:29 GMT -5
well with the zuma i did another test today 60 miles and used just the kickstart no voltage drop so even with the dual headlight it puts out enough to run just not recharge if you use the estart the bad news i went to put another good run on and i had to get a ride home to fetch the trailer no spark so its not releated to the efi
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Post by Rebel on Aug 6, 2011 21:27:16 GMT -5
update?
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Post by theswede on Aug 9, 2011 8:03:39 GMT -5
It's been a while, but here is an update on the conversion project: After my last issues with the A/F ratio being too lean, causing engine overheat I got a new injector larger size one (60g) from Matt a Ecotrons. However, it took until today before I installed it as I quite frankly had enough with all the issues I have experienced and simply let the scooter sit since last time I wrote anything here. After installing the new injector and changing the oil (I did not pull the cylinder to look for damage), I tried starting it up, only to find the engine still behaved about the same as with the old (38g) injector. - I am having pretty severe starting issues, the engine is very hard to start when cold and needs several shots of starter fluid before it will run.
- I am finding I have to increase the fuel injector offset by some 40% to make the engine run at anything more than 10% throttle (VAL_fFlApp set to 1.4 for those that has this kit). I had the same issue with the old injector... Possibly there is something wrong with my installation that causes this, but I have checked and re-checked everything again and again, still not finding anything wrong.
- Even though I have replaced the injector and subsequently should have eliminated the lean condition, the engine has no power. Before the conversion, I could hit 65kmh easily. Now I am struggling to reach 60.
- Power usage is still an issue, I am fairly certain I am slowly but steadily draining the battery when driving. I have a volt meter on my dash and I can see it dropping down to below 12v whenever I am waiting for a light, and it never goes above 12.5v when driving. Subsequently, I am never charging the battery so eventually it will be empty and I'll be stranded.
It is a disappointment the kit did not work out for me, but it has been interesting to learn about EFI. Now I am most likely going to remove the kit and put the old carb back in, and then probably sell the scooter. As I needed something to get around with while the scooter was dead I picked up a 2009 Yamaha C3 (called Giggle in EU for some reason) that had hardly been used at an insanely low price (basically same as a new Chinese scooter of good quality). This is now my primary ride. /Otto
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noday
Non-Com
"Sparky" Electronics Research and Development Officer
Posts: 90
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Post by noday on Aug 9, 2011 9:14:58 GMT -5
thanks for the update and congrats on the new ride.
the charging issue is a bummer.
I think mainpeace still has that same problem, along with the cold start issue.
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Post by Rebel on Aug 9, 2011 11:15:49 GMT -5
I was afraid of that, it seemed like a great idea when you started the project, I had high hopes for you.
Good news about the new ride and from what I can see it is already fuel injected.
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