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Post by theswede on May 17, 2011 8:17:35 GMT -5
Rebel, yes it uses a serial bus to connect to a Windows-based PC for configuration and tuning.
jmkjr72, the two-stroke kit has a O2 sensor as an option it looks like. With that I would assume the kit is self-tuning just as the four-stroke kit is. One concern is possibly that the O2 sensor lives a much harder life in a two-stroke, and may not last all that long.
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jmkjr72
contributing staff
Commander 132nd Northern Cav. Division
Posts: 2,779
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Post by jmkjr72 on May 17, 2011 18:29:07 GMT -5
yes thats what matt said he is throwing in the o2 sensor and the ecu controled efi on the set up for me i have to find an in take to fit the 28mm cvk throttle body add a second fuel injector bung to the intake and move my oil injection to the intake manifold also
i must say just thru the few emails asking questions these guys are a great help so far matt sent me info on the throttle body so i can get an intake and air filter to fit it
now im waiting to find out if i can epoxy that bung to the intake and waiting for jeremy to get back to me on an intake and air filter
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jmkjr72
contributing staff
Commander 132nd Northern Cav. Division
Posts: 2,779
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Post by jmkjr72 on May 17, 2011 20:40:30 GMT -5
well if they have some sort of referal program i mentioned that i heard about there product from your build
and i am eagerly awaiting fancy fi parts for my zuma
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Post by theswede on May 18, 2011 15:58:17 GMT -5
Hey, nice to see that you are going for it too. It will be interesting to learn how it works out on a two-stroke! I have finished the remaining wiring, and gotten the O2 sensor welded. Also had to move the ECU as it was in the way for the seat bucket. Now I need to wait for some glue to set and then pick up a new exhaust gasket tomorrow, and I should be good to go! Here's a picture of the exhaust system with the O2 sensor installed: Inner diameter of the tubing is about 25mm, the O2 sensor goes pretty far in and actually blocks the pipe quite a bit. I may weld a small extension on the bung in the future to back the sensor out some more. For those that want to learn more about this EFI kit I can recommend this thread on SD: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=discussion&action=display&thread=37715That guy writing should really be a technical writer (maybe he is?), it is one of the most thorough build threads I have ever seen anywhere.
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Post by mainepeace on May 18, 2011 17:00:10 GMT -5
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Post by mainepeace on May 18, 2011 17:01:03 GMT -5
Heh, just noticed the previous post referenced my thread.
Yes, I'm an author and used to be a tech writer. I'm working on the software part of the writeup now.
Greg
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Post by Rebel on May 18, 2011 17:09:21 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum mainepeace
How is that EFI working out for you.
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Post by mainepeace on May 18, 2011 17:49:29 GMT -5
It is AWESOME! Love the instant throttle response. Also learned alot about what NOT to do with the install. Still working on getting real numbers for MPG and power. However, acceleration and top speed numbers are basically meaningless on these small scooters, as either you feel it or you don't. There are too many variables when it comes to drivetrain to get any numbers that mean something for someone else. My top speed has not changed. However, I have a (63) Peace Sports so my top speed is more limited by the drivetrain and final gearing ratio rather than not having enough power to reach top speed. The torque for hill climbing is noticeable in its increase. The throttle response is instant. My next step is to install the optional CDI to control the timing. I'll do it after I get the first tank MPG numbers. I'll also do some more airflow mods like port matching between the intake manifold and the intake passage. Greg
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Post by Rebel on May 18, 2011 18:10:26 GMT -5
theswede, you've ported your head already haven't you?
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Post by theswede on May 19, 2011 3:49:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the offer mainepeace, I might have a few questions going forward. Again, very good writeup you did! Once I get this thing running I am hoping to use some pretty advanced data analysis tools I have access to to analyze the engine parameters. From reading your post on SD it seems the included software is slightly lacking in this perspective. Plus it will be a fun exercise Rebel, I have not port-matched my head per see, but I do have a head with larger valves and ports right out of the box. The intake port is 22mm if I remember correctly, and it almost line up perfectly with the spacer and the intake. I have a mismatch of about 2mm on the bottom half of the intake, that's all. I found out when everything was bolted together, and I never did anything about it as I did not want to risk getting metal debris into the cylinder or have to take it all apart again... The downside of having a retro type scooter like mine is that there is almost _no_ space to work on the engine when installed. It has to come out of the frame each time.
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Post by Rebel on May 19, 2011 11:40:35 GMT -5
Are you finding many rubber parts that alcohol would have a bad effect on with these? And does it auto adjust for going from E85 and normal fuel? I'm just wondering if you can utilize whatever fuel is available.
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Post by mainepeace on May 20, 2011 2:26:19 GMT -5
The intake plenum, the throttle body are aluminum. The only parts I can see that have rubber are the O-rings for the fuel injector and *possibly* something in the fuel pump, but not likely. I'm sure the fuel injector itself is fine with using alcohol. Fuel lines and petcocks can be replaced with alcohol friendly parts. Shouldn't be an issue, except maybe for the oxygen sensor. I'll ask Matt and see what he thinks.
The software is lacking in user interface, as it's pretty much using the stock interface it was developed on (can't say more than that), and not a specially designed GUI. The graphs are pretty basic, but you can zoom in to see whatever time period you want. All the data is in a standard CSV file so you can import it to any program. You just have to figure out the multipliers and calibration offsets. They are at the top of each file.
Greg
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Post by theswede on May 21, 2011 11:55:08 GMT -5
An update: I got the d**ed thing RUNNING! ;D I need someone to slap me to get the silly grin of my face I think Woohoo, EFI rocks! Now, back to reality: I had some starting issues initially, the engine would fire 2-3 times when cranking but refuse to start and run. I got it running a few seconds by using starter fluid, but that did not help in the long run. After digging into the ECU calibration I modified the start fuel factor for the temperature span I am in, in essence giving the engine more choke (at least, that's what I believe the setting does). This worked, I was able to start the engine and make it run on idle. However, any more throttle than about 6% was impossible, it killed the engine. Thinking I was on the right track and the engine simply needed more fuel, I modified the fuel enrichment factor for the injector, increasing it in stages. Eventually I ended up with a good throttle response, and a smooth running engine ;D I took the scooter out for a ride and it felt great. Throttle response is perfectly linear, there is no stuttering or surging at certain RPMs, no hesitations anywhere no matter what RPM and throttle position I am at. Idle is still _way_ too low, at about 1000rpm which is just above stalling. I have actually never heard a 139QMB engine run at such a low RPM without dying in a few seconds, most impressive that EFI can make this work... I need to adjust the idle screw to fix this. And I seem to have some kind of start/initial takeoff issue, where the ECU gets confused or something. It goes away after about 30-40 seconds, so it is no big deal. I hope to have some feedback from Ecotrons soon on the data logs I sent them earlier today, there most certainly is settings that needs tweaking that I don't know about. And I need to get the CDI that came with the kit installed, so the ECU can control the ignition. At the moment I am using my old stock CDI that came with the scooter, as recommended by Ecotrons installation instructions. In all, I am pretty satisfied both with the kit in general and also the great support from Ecotrons. They are _very_ responsive and willing to assist. I have to say that this kit is not for the beginner, but for the more experienced scooter enthusiast it is certainly possible to install. Take your time, check and re-check before proceeding to the next step. The most confusing thing is the wiring diagrams. I am an electrical engineer by training and have worked with computers and wiring all my life but I still managed to mess it up the first time. Echotrons need to work on their manual a bit in that aspect. I can recommend mainepeace's thread on SD, he actually explains it better than the manual does. Power usage seems to be a non-issue. The pump draws current, sure, but not so much that it kills the battery. It is illegal here to run without headlights so I have to have it on all the time. 35km's of riding today and the battery shows no sign of dying. I have a voltage indicator on the dash and it shows the same voltage as before the EFI install (when riding). I think I'll head out for another ride... ;D See ya!
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Post by theswede on May 21, 2011 14:35:38 GMT -5
After an e-mail from Matt at Ecotrons it seems my plan to run on E85 or gas and simply switch between two fuel maps is not going to work. Copy &paste from Matt's e-mail:
********** "Performance Switch" has 2 positions: ECO vs RICH. In ECO position, the EFI will run the base fuel "map", or stoicometric AFR (normal cases), which gives the best fuel economy, and least emissions. In RICH mode, the EFI will run the enriched "map", or rich AFR (at high load, high RPM, esp. at WOT), which gives more power. "Performance Switch" is meant to let the user's easily switch between the economy and enrichment modes in real-time, so that he can run for economy when cruising around the town; and can immediately switch to performance mode as he wants. OFF -> ECO -> STOIC ON -> RICH -> POWER *********
So, it seems I can't use it to select a different MAP when using E85. Oh well, I suppose I will have to make do with the ECO mode and regular gas. I am pretty certain the fuel consuption will go down anyway.
/Otto
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Post by Rebel on May 21, 2011 16:16:44 GMT -5
Too bad about the ethanol. Great about the EFI working well.
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