philr54
Non-Com
fuel system apprentice
Posts: 118
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Post by philr54 on May 8, 2011 18:03:27 GMT -5
Finally got some time and decent weather to work on the scooters. The Carino started up with a little coaxing, made a few adjustments and it's running - just need to rejet for the warmer weather. The Paparazzi has the 1P57QMJ, locked up last fall and has been sitting. Pulled the plastic off and this is the first problem I found: I'm assuming this hose assembly pumps some exhaust back into the intake (when working properly). Would this have anything to do with the engine seizing up?
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Post by Rebel on May 8, 2011 18:12:06 GMT -5
If it came off the intake, you were probably running lean and could have burned a valve, I don't think it would have caused the motor to seize up, unless the valve came apart and locked it up? Have you taken the motor apart?
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jmkjr72
contributing staff
Commander 132nd Northern Cav. Division
Posts: 2,779
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Post by jmkjr72 on May 8, 2011 18:17:46 GMT -5
it would depend upon what side that hole is on if it allowed more air in then it could casue you to run lean and over heat but i dont think it should have
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philr54
Non-Com
fuel system apprentice
Posts: 118
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Post by philr54 on May 8, 2011 19:20:11 GMT -5
You can see the other end of the hose in the first pic. It runs from the cylinder head to a vacuum operated valve, to what looks like a one way valve to the intake tube just before the carb. I'm just guessing at what it does. The hose broke/melted right at the tube on the cylinder head. I haven't opened it up yet, it's too tight a fit so I'll have to drop the engine to really work on it. There doesn't appear to be a lot of options/parts for the "P" engines at the moment. I might have to consider a standard shortcase 157QMJ.
Back in OCT 09, if someone had told me I'd be tuning carbs, adjusting valves or rebuilding scooter top ends - I'd have thought they were crazy. DAMN - look at me now ;D
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Post by Rebel on May 11, 2011 1:34:18 GMT -5
Check out Scappydog if you have not already, he does have some P parts listed I think
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Post by kz1000st on May 18, 2011 22:02:16 GMT -5
My Milano has a similar set up, one of the hoses goes to the EGR valve on the head and the other hose had a relief valve that would be hooked up to the exhaust on future models. One day the scooter started running badly and I found that the relief valve was stuck open letting air into the system. I heard sucking noises into the hose into the relief valve. I stuck a bolt into the relief valve hose and all was well after that. I don't see a valve on your hose Phil so it must have been either different or running lean. My ran like crap until I plugged it. It wouldn't go over 40, bucked and hesitated and pinged and detonated like mad. It might even have broken the inner exhaust valve spring which showed up later on when the outer intake valve spring broke too.
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philr54
Non-Com
fuel system apprentice
Posts: 118
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Post by philr54 on Jun 19, 2011 18:33:47 GMT -5
Dropped the engine today. Took about an hour including plastics. It was a little tricky getting the hanger bolt out working alone and I thought it would be heavier than it was. Now everything I can find on rebuild/repair threads says to put it at TDC before taking it apart but it's locked up tight. The "T" on the flywheel(?) is about 1/2" from the mark and the holes in the cam are almost lined up so I'm guessing it's just short of TDC. Any comments or suggestions before I start tearing it down? I may end up buying an engine, but I'm still going into this one for experience/education so any tips/comments will be appreciated. This is my first major repair/rebuild and I have a link to 49ccscoot's GY6 BBK install.
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Post by kz1000st on Jun 19, 2011 20:06:50 GMT -5
Now everything I can find on rebuild/repair threads says to put it at TDC before taking it apart but it's locked up tight.
They're lying. They only want you to put it at TDC for a reference for reassembly and to make sure the piston isn't at the bottom of its stroke if you're going to pull the barrel. Since it's blown what harm will it being off a few degrees do? You still have to set the cam timing every time you reassemble a motor anyway. Did that, been there, fought with it.
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Post by Rebel on Jun 20, 2011 2:02:08 GMT -5
I do not think you are going to do any damage if it is off when you take it apart, just make sure all the marks line up when it goes back together. Whatever caused it to lock up is not going to get fixed unless it is taken apart and is what is keeping it from lining up right now.
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philr54
Non-Com
fuel system apprentice
Posts: 118
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Post by philr54 on Jun 20, 2011 20:12:48 GMT -5
As I said; this is my first time tearing down an engine. I followed the instructions found here. After I got the cylinder head off, I put a little pressure on the piston and it moved so I worked the cylinder loose and pulled it. I can't see any problems with the head, piston or the bore. Piston rings are unbroken, free and flexible, the bore is smooth w/no marks or scratches. BUT (there's always a but) when I went to remove the piston, the connecting rod(?) moved about 1/4" so I guess I have pieces of a bearing scattered all around the inside of the engine case and the crankshaft bearings.
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Post by Rebel on Jun 20, 2011 20:59:41 GMT -5
That is not a good sign. You may also have a messed up crank journal.
So you have come this far, now it has to come all apart and cleaned and inspected. The only other alternative is to find another motor to put back in it.
BTW this means you had an oil related failure. Could be the pump stopped working since I'm sure you never ran it out of oil.
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Post by kz1000st on Jul 6, 2011 8:01:53 GMT -5
Phil, I'm on pins and needles here. What's happening?
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philr54
Non-Com
fuel system apprentice
Posts: 118
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Post by philr54 on Jul 6, 2011 15:36:59 GMT -5
I'm waiting on the cash, hopefully next week. I'm probably going to get a replacement engine - then I can take my time and work on the busted one. I found a short article on one of the "Buggy" forums showing where to tap the oil from the pump for an oil cooler and I've been reading up on Big Bore Installs. Also found a site with a decent selection of radiators and fittings (need to get that M3 running).
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Post by jordanmcqueen on Jul 11, 2011 12:41:14 GMT -5
Hi Phil... My name is Jordan. I am trying to purchase a replacement battery for my boyfriend's Motobravo Paparazzi 50cc, 4 stroke, knowing only that it should be a 12V 7AH. I was hoping you could help me figure out which to buy - when I called my local moto supply biz they told me they would need the (serial?) numbers off the current battery - but unfortunately the current one is not the correct battery for the bike, its a 5AH. Maybe you know where I could find an on-line free manual that might specify size? Thanks for your time...it's a shot in the dark to a stranger, but I can't find anyone else with a Paparazzi. Jordan
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philr54
Non-Com
fuel system apprentice
Posts: 118
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Post by philr54 on Jul 11, 2011 15:07:56 GMT -5
Hi Jordan, the only # on the battery is XTAX7A-BS and it's a 6AH. I don't know if it's the correct battery, scooter was bought used and the battery just sits in the bucket under the seat. The same battery is in the red scooter and is a replacement for the original which fits in a battery compartment. Sorry I can't be more help.
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