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Post by Rebel on Nov 1, 2009 1:11:37 GMT -5
Sounds to me that it is something more than just the rings not being seated well with it blowing so much oil out. Poorly seated rings should just give you a little smoke. You are sure that the oil is not overfilled?
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Post by kliff on Nov 1, 2009 8:28:48 GMT -5
Well, I didn't get your message about "no more banzai runs" (oops). Put my new nifty oil catch on, took it on the interstate - got about 2 miles, and the oil catch was full and it was overflowing through the check valve and spraying where the other nipple was pointed - in this case, right at my muffler. Again, oops. So I towed it in, and I swear we just had this conversation about the rings not being seated quite right. What has him worried right now is that at a normal idle, he pulled the breather off and just put his hand in front of it and was getting oil on his hand. So he's tearing it down tonight. I left him an extra set of rings. He's also concerned that there might be a hairline crack in the cylinder wall - but he just wants to see inside before jumping to conclusions. No more wide open throttle top speed runs...especially those where you end up just holding, while it slowly creeps up..... Break her in just a tad slower/easier...
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Post by kuzikood on Nov 1, 2009 9:05:33 GMT -5
sounds to me like oil isnt draining back into the block right and filling up the valvecover till it has no where else to go . numbski ya diddnt accidently leave like a rag or something in the block when ya put it back together , only ything i can think of that would cause that
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numbski
Non-Com
Sargeant, Ist Bt, 2nd Brigade, Mechanics Apprentice, BRONZE STAR 11/01/09, for having continued, when others would have QUIT!
Posts: 91
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Post by numbski on Nov 1, 2009 12:54:57 GMT -5
Nothing that I can think of - I don't know if he's opened the thing up again, but I'll have him look again. BTW - this thing has a stock cam. I'd thought about ordering an A(9/12)? cam, but decided to settle down my current situation first. Man - it really sounds like Kliff is mirroring the remarks of the mechanic last night initially - which was for me to slow the heck down for 400-500 miles, keep it less than wot at all times, and see if the leak doesn't go away on it's own before paying to open it up. He changed his tune when he was getting oil on his hand straight from the breather on the valve cover with the hose disconnected. Humor my ignorance here for a second. Let's say oil *is* pooling inside the valve cover. It overflows in large quantity into the breather, fills my oil catch, then proceeds to spew onto my muffler. Shut the engine off. Now - you said it should then drain whatever oil is still pooled inside the valve cover back into the engine block, right? How does it get there? Presumably the piston is blocking the oil from draining back into the combustion chamber and then back into the block. Is that what the oil passage (the small hole Kliff warned me about when I talked about machining the crankcase) is for? If so I wonder....Brent (the mechanic) said he had trouble with the paper base gasket between the cylinder and the crankcase. I took him another one, and he said he used that and some shellac to get it sealed so the engine would stop leaking. Is it possible in getting the engine sealed up nice and tight then that he inadvertently sealed up the oil passage way with either the gasket and/or shellac, and thus we have the problem in front of us? If that were true, then it would explain why Brent got oil on this hand - the oil hadn't drained back out, so while letting it idle, it was spitting the oil *already in the valve cover* onto his hand. Would also explain how it is we have 210 psi of combustion chamber pressure yet symptoms of blow-by. I swear once this thing is running I'll be able to build an engine out of scrap metal. Ugh. Might not run worth a crap, but I could do it.
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Post by Rebel on Nov 1, 2009 15:01:47 GMT -5
The oil drains back down through the timing chain passageway, that allows it to drain back into the crank case, it does not go down the cylinder to get there.
The oil pump pushes oil up to lubricate the cam, rocker arms and friction points with the valves. If your hose is discharging a lot of oil that means there must be a lot in the top end of the motor at one time, or it is not flowing back down the way it should. That is why I asked if you have over filled the motor with oil.
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Post by kliff on Nov 1, 2009 15:29:35 GMT -5
Now this guy is strating to scare me.... gasket shellac, on a base gasket, with an oil passage involved....so, so easy to block the passage and restrict the topend oil supply...like your mechanic said....sure is noisey.
Aminimal spot of silicone sealant where each case half joins, 12 and 6 o'clock is all you need, if it is done right. If the jug hole had to be bored, and it ruptured through the side or has less than .020" sealing surface, then you plug the hole, it's entire length, lay a new gasket over it and mark a new hole location, as far to the outside, but still in the gasket window as possible. 3/32" is all you need, 1/8" is great.
Gotta tell ya numbski, this cat sounds like a parts changer, not a mechanic.... I don't think Id beleive the 211psi reading HE took, and TOLD you. Sounds more like he "shellacced" the top-end, and wiped out your engine, by starving the top side for oil, and sorry, but WOT Banzai passes on new engines aew a no-no....I don't care how many folks say ride it like ya stole it....that first 100 miles is critical...
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numbski
Non-Com
Sargeant, Ist Bt, 2nd Brigade, Mechanics Apprentice, BRONZE STAR 11/01/09, for having continued, when others would have QUIT!
Posts: 91
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Post by numbski on Nov 1, 2009 16:42:51 GMT -5
You'll get no arguments from me. He did the compression check while I was standing there. Saw it myself. Keep in mind that it is an Akunar high-compression piston, so it's going to be higher than normal. Not arguing your experience, just making sure you have all the facts to consider. I've got one thing everyone is telling me. SLOW THE HECK DOWN. That I will do. After discussing it with him, instead of opening it up, we're going to give it a good oil change, and ride it nice and slow. Take it a couple hundred miles (if I can), and see how it does. If the piston/cylinder is already ruined, I'm not sure there's much harm. If I wind up replacing the engine, I might be calling you Kliff. Sounds like you can build me a mean engine that I wouldn't have to futz with. Or maybe I should see how Rebel's does first?
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Post by kliff on Nov 1, 2009 16:49:22 GMT -5
Wait & see how Cuz Dougie does with his. Other than maybe some jetting, he should be good to go.....but I think I've got him pretty close to the ballpark.
Good call on the oil change though.....run it and see what happens. Just run it slower.....lol
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numbski
Non-Com
Sargeant, Ist Bt, 2nd Brigade, Mechanics Apprentice, BRONZE STAR 11/01/09, for having continued, when others would have QUIT!
Posts: 91
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Post by numbski on Nov 1, 2009 19:36:59 GMT -5
Wow. He replaced the oil 3 times - the third time he pushed it through the system with an air compressor. The oil screen was clogged with crap and he got a chunk of what looked like black silicon caulk out of there... He basically flushed it clean with oil and air compressor (or at least as clean as you can get without opening the crankcase). Sounded better - no knocking. Hrm. It's still blowing by oil, even keeping it slow, but I'll give it a few days of riding easy, see how it does.
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Post by kliff on Nov 2, 2009 6:37:10 GMT -5
Dammmmm, sumpin' went way wrong, I wouldn't be surprised to see all the crank bearings trashed now too. He screwed up big time,nunb.. I think this cat is going to be owing you an engine.
If it were me, I'd order the parts, hand him the bill, and get all my chit to the house, and find a different builder.
After all this, do not forget oil pump, nylon oil pump drive gear, oil punp drive chain, and cam chain, along with a COMPLETE engine gasket set, with seals. It's gonna need to be openned up.
That is too much crap, and blowing it with an air compressor, just packed more stuff deeper in there. Ever seen a couple of brass plugs externally on the engine, those are oil gally plugs. They will need to be drilled out, and new press/swedge plugs procured(good luck!), or made. I prefer to tap the holes and use screw in allen plugs, makes future cleaning WAY easier.
Where are all the mechanics out there! Are they all dead now? Sorry numbski, that shot was NOT intended for you.....but where have they all gone?
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numbski
Non-Com
Sargeant, Ist Bt, 2nd Brigade, Mechanics Apprentice, BRONZE STAR 11/01/09, for having continued, when others would have QUIT!
Posts: 91
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Post by numbski on Nov 2, 2009 7:06:21 GMT -5
The guy's a certified engineer. Let's make sure my stupidity isn't being attributed to him. I simply took it in because it was seriously leaking oil between the crankcase and cylinder. I gave him the whole story, he tried to fix it, and used the shellac as kind of a last resort to get the leak to stop, which it did. What are you thinking happened here then...the shellac somehow got into the rest of the engine and hosed things up?
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Post by kliff on Nov 2, 2009 8:00:29 GMT -5
Yeah, it blocked the top end passage way, starved the top for oil, then excess got down into the bottom, some probably sucked through the screen, more blocked or restricted passages.
All of what I'm saying are ASSumptions too, we're too far apart to put a specific handle on it. But if that much was in the strainer, I'd tear it dow to see if anything is salvageable. Yup, I'm rescinding previous advice to run it. But with this new tidbit, about the strainer, I just don't think it prudent, full teardown, now.
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numbski
Non-Com
Sargeant, Ist Bt, 2nd Brigade, Mechanics Apprentice, BRONZE STAR 11/01/09, for having continued, when others would have QUIT!
Posts: 91
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Post by numbski on Nov 2, 2009 8:33:57 GMT -5
I should have hung around. Rode it to work this morning, never taking it over 45mph. Didn't sound any worse for the wear. I'll try to take it easy getting home this afternoon.
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Post by kuzikood on Nov 2, 2009 10:28:39 GMT -5
hey numbski st louis to augusta is only around a 12 hour drive .......im just sayin .........you can stop by my house on the way as sorta a layover and ill go with ya down to kliffs lol rent a small boxtruck , buy a nice bottle of wine, pack a lunch .......... and hit the road would prolly be wayyyyyyyy cheaper in the longrunlol
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numbski
Non-Com
Sargeant, Ist Bt, 2nd Brigade, Mechanics Apprentice, BRONZE STAR 11/01/09, for having continued, when others would have QUIT!
Posts: 91
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Post by numbski on Nov 2, 2009 14:41:35 GMT -5
I've got about 30 miles on it today, seems to be running okay. I am still seeing some oil come out the breather, but no "fountain" of oil like I had before. Idles just fine, keeping it under 45 and varying the amount of throttle I give it as much as I can while staying away from WOT. Doesn't seem too bad. Then again, if the damage is already done... Got a 20 mile ride home, hopefully it gets me home okay.
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