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Post by rapidjim on Apr 2, 2013 8:30:27 GMT -5
Was your original piston a dome type piston? I have tore down many of these and honestly couldn't tell you if the flat top piston is perfectly square with the top of the jug or if it is down a bit for valve clearance.
I can say if your cam is off timing you will have a compression issue and running problem.
Jim
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Post by rocky88 on Apr 2, 2013 11:18:02 GMT -5
thats NOT right!!!take it off. you got your measurement's wrong......a good friend of mine on here is gonna chime in...but that is not right..
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Post by gy6forlife on Apr 2, 2013 12:36:51 GMT -5
Was your original piston a dome type piston? I have tore down many of these and honestly couldn't tell you if the flat top piston is perfectly square with the top of the jug or if it is down a bit for valve clearance. I can say if your cam is off timing you will have a compression issue and running problem. Jim Jim, The original piston is a high dome with valve relieves and ran like a champ for over 12K,and for my X-Mas,and B-day I ordered a BBK kit and battery,a KOSO yellow springs (all 4) the 3 for the clutch,and the main one as well,a new batter that almost killed me,as I was in bed and smelled battery acid,and went to the garage and the battery was in melt down mode???,the Tech MO,said there is now way it could have happen,I just installed all the parts finally and now the battery even goes south on me,and there answer is ,"we dont accept any returns on electronic parts"even though the entire engine and ass end was up on the bench taking it apart to find the problem?I taped all the wires that went to anything just to make sure this did not happen,they have basically told me tough luck?NOT,as I have emailed them and to no avail getting any answer on a replacement as " NO?OK,,we will see who wins the war here.I need a head gasket as a friend of mine is milliing the head down for me so it will raise the CR back up to a at least 10.75:1 as it was stock,here are a few pics of the original piston,it has a pin height of 16.5mm estimate with digital calipers.The aftermarket one is 15.55mm??So why the difference in pin height?It should be the same as the stock piston and not dished either? Jason Thanks for your help.  |
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Post by rapidjim on Apr 2, 2013 15:47:41 GMT -5
Was your original piston a dome type piston? I have tore down many of these and honestly couldn't tell you if the flat top piston is perfectly square with the top of the jug or if it is down a bit for valve clearance. I can say if your cam is off timing you will have a compression issue and running problem. Jim Jim, The original piston is a high dome with valve relieves and ran like a champ for over 12K,and for my X-Mas,and B-day I ordered a BBK kit and battery,a KOSO yellow springs (all 4) the 3 for the clutch,and the main one as well,a new batter that almost killed me,as I was in bed and smelled battery acid,and went to the garage and the battery was in melt down mode???,the Tech MO,said there is now way it could have happen,I just installed all the parts finally and now the battery even goes south on me,and there answer is ,"we dont accept any returns on electronic parts"even though the entire engine and ass end was up on the bench taking it apart to find the problem?I taped all the wires that went to anything just to make sure this did not happen,they have basically told me tough luck?NOT,as I have emailed them and to no avail getting any answer on a replacement as " NO?OK,,we will see who wins the war here.I need a head gasket as a friend of mine is milliing the head down for me so it will raise the CR back up to a at least 10.75:1 as it was stock,here are a few pics of the original piston,it has a pin height of 16.5mm estimate with digital calipers.The aftermarket one is 15.55mm??So why the difference in pin height?It should be the same as the stock piston and not dished either? Jason Thanks for your help. View AttachmentFirst off before we go crazy here. I have to agree with what Mo told you about the battery. I am not calling you a liar but, in all the years that I have been around mechanics and batteries, I have never seen a battery that is just sitting with nothing connected to it or around it self distruct. Something about that does not ring true to me. Now over charging it, getting it hot to start with and it will continue to boil after taking the battery charger off it but, that you would see. Piston Compression height is measured from the pin center line to the flat portion of the piston. Do not measure to the top of the pop-up or the bottom of the dish. To be as accurate as possible , measure from the flat portion of the piston to the top of the wrist pin hole, then measure the wrist pin diameter, divide the wrist pin diameter in 1/2 and add that to your first measurement. How did you come to the compression ratio figure you quoted? There are five factors that affect compression ratio: cylinder swept volume, clearance volume, piston dome or dish, head-gasket volume, and chamber volume. You would be correct saying that a dome piston will be higher compression than a dish piston IF all other factors are the same. Which in your case they are not because your BBK is a larger bore. I took the time to look at scrappy's site and the picture of the BBK you are talking about shows a flat top piston. I am not defending either you or Scrappy. I will say there have been many folks that have bought BBKs from Scrappy and have posted no issues like you are having. Jim |
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Post by gy6forlife on Apr 4, 2013 23:30:46 GMT -5
Jim,
I did all my measurements with the top of the line swiss made digital calipers,the piston per the "adim"said it was not right as we all know that a piston down in the cylinder will lower all aspects of the end results,So I told crappy=Crappy to dont worry after the battery going to melt down after filling the thing,I forward all the time and specs to charge a new battery.I am just taking the whole deal off my credid card act,and pay only for the tire I got as it will work fine ,the rest is all junk,with the piston being down in the hole,as we all know that is not correct,as you stated you self?So the the CC company is taking it all off my bill but the tire.and if any one on any site decides Scrappy=Crappy that they bought from,are not true 80cc kits,as after the piston site 1.5mm down,in the cylinder we all know this is not correct.
So They left me no option but to tell em "f..k U and we will c who wins the war here,now they are saying of the 4 time I asked for a invoice for my ordered,they said that they would send it,still have never seen the original invoice even though they say they sent it to my email at :freedomsoul36@yahoo.com,and not one has ever showed up to me or in my spam box?I just need a head and base gasket for a 47mm piston,I have a 50mm ordered it should seal fine,and get me back running,and I had to have .085mm taken off the jug to get the CR up to a decent #.as you are right I did all this for nothing if the piston doesn't come to TDC !!!!!
Any input is cool and much appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Jason Spidel of Noblesville,IN<>
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Post by Rebel on Apr 5, 2013 1:18:45 GMT -5
I have never had a piston not come to the top of the cylinder but if Jim has another opinion I respect it and would not just dismiss it.
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Post by rapidjim on Apr 5, 2013 8:46:56 GMT -5
Jim,
I did all my measurements with the top of the line swiss made digital calipers,the piston per the "adim"said it was not right as we all know that a piston down in the cylinder will lower all aspects of the end results,So I told crappy=Crappy to dont worry after the battery going to melt down after filling the thing,I forward all the time and specs to charge a new battery.I am just taking the whole deal off my credid card act,and pay only for the tire I got as it will work fine ,the rest is all junk,with the piston being down in the hole,as we all know that is not correct,as you stated you self?So the the CC company is taking it all off my bill but the tire.and if any one on any site decides Scrappy=Crappy that they bought from,are not true 80cc kits,as after the piston site 1.5mm down,in the cylinder we all know this is not correct.
So They left me no option but to tell em "f..k U and we will c who wins the war here,now they are saying of the 4 time I asked for a invoice for my ordered,they said that they would send it,still have never seen the original invoice even though they say they sent it to my email at :freedomsoul36@yahoo.com,and not one has ever showed up to me or in my spam box?I just need a head and base gasket for a 47mm piston,I have a 50mm ordered it should seal fine,and get me back running,and I had to have .085mm taken off the jug to get the CR up to a decent #.as you are right I did all this for nothing if the piston doesn't come to TDC !!!!!
Any input is cool and much appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Jason Spidel of Noblesville,IN<>
The only 50 I have here in the shop has a dome piston, the top of the dome is square with the top of the jug but, the top recessed portion of the piston is not. I don't have a BBK or another motor to verify one way or the other. SO I will not say either way at this point since I can not verify it one way or the other. It does seem that there is a lot of story changing going on here. Your statement "as we all know that a piston down in the cylinder will lower all aspects of the end results" is only true if ALL other factors (cylinder swept volume, clearance volume, head-gasket volume, and chamber volume) are the same. In your case they are not since the piston is bigger and the volume has changed. You can not claim that it is not a true 80cc kit without doing all the measurements that I posted above. Just being fair here. One post you say that you are having a friend mill your head and in this post you say you had the jug milled. Which is it? There are two sides to every story and we haven't heard Scrappy's Side. I have a hard time believing that scrappy hasn't given you help or options. I have done business with scrappy for many years and I have not once ever had an issue. As far as your battery is concerned, I stated I have never seen a battery go into melt down just sitting there (in almost 60 years) anything is possible but, I have a hard time believing that one. If you would have bought it from me and told me that, I wouldn't have warrantied it either. I/We have tried to help you get your machine up and running, at this point I am going to bow out of this discussion, since all you can do is argue with what I have said. You seem to only point out what has been said that agrees with how you think and if it doesn't agree with what you think, you dismiss it. Remember we are not there to see first hand what you are dealing with. One last note, it is your right to file a charge back, however, that does not mean you will win in the long run. The credit card company will credit your account, but Scrappy will be given a chance to respond and then the credit card company will make their determination and if they side with scrappy they will debit your account again. Just some friendy advice here, I can understand your frustration, however be careful what you say and how you say things in an open forum. Some statements can be taken as slander and that is a horse of a different color. Jim |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 13:05:20 GMT -5
I had a teacher, who was a air conditioning wizard for the Govt, he was called in to work on a window AC unit, in a top secret room of some sort, he was watched from five Ft. away the whole time.
The unit was running and he was checking the current on the compressor, when fire shot out of the side and became a flame thrower across the room,him and the two guys watching ran for their lives out of the room, as they exited, the compressor exploded in a fire ball and every inch of the room was in flames, one of the watchers was badly burned, the documents were history, and he spent the next many hours in a detention room being brow beat for something he could never explain, after a 300,000 dollar investigation he was cleared of any wrong doing. but he was always suspect and left the govt.
CREAP-PO HAPPENS
I just had a whole new engine melt down, 1100 bucks gone for nothing, after a 14,000 plus mile run on the old one.
Zero return for my loss from any one. I have zen'd the whole thing off to transportation cost, cause i don't want the hurt, which is exactly what it is to infect the love i must show those innocents around me who I owe my life and love (jim says crap, here he goes hahaha:P)BMS sold me a engine that had been opened many times and used for parts and put back together again, i found marked turned bolts all the way deep inside.
ITS HIT OR MISS.
SOMETIMES YOU GET LUCKY
NO QUALITY CONTROL.
SOFT METALS
All things you all have heard folks say as you wondered why.
The plastics on a battery when melted can release nerve gas, and before any know it all disagrees research it. these purchase's are full of wacko events, that 25 years ago would never be tolerated, Scrappy sent me a bad starter switch that spun my starter gears to nothing while i was riding, every time i hit the brake switch.
I never even told them, what are they gonna do, pay for a new starter system, NO THEY SHOULD MAKE CHINA PAY FOR ONE.
These bikes will make a wisdom filled Buddhist out of you, or you will melt down in rage.
Scrappy should have asked you for pictures, maybe this young (jason) fella came at them too hard for them to respond peacefully, maybe not, but just as he says, that battery could have killed him, he may be sick even now.
It does not matter that they are mostly a good bunch of people WHICH THEY ARE, this is now and this is today.
I see one thing in common in all good dealers in this market, THEY DO NOT REDUCE THEIR INTERACTIONS WITH HUMANS TO USING THE SAME LOGIC USED TO CHANGEA BIKE PART OUT.
And on This is a "GOOD GUY" list even "RAPID JIM" is way up high on.
Scrappy should have sent a release of liability waiver to this guy and then sent a new battery and then do what is the most American thing in the world, raise hell like suspicion with china.
These forums, and this whole china bike thing is dying, and it is long over due for adults to step up and admit why too, a failure of self respect, a passion addiction to get on a bike at any cost, leading to a complete failure of the middle men to punish the manufacture'ers for dumping junk and protect our citizens from abuse.
The idea of this country being No. 1, has become nothing more then a "Pride Stuffed Memory"
promoted by dangerous semi dementia precox romantics, who have stood in the way of saving our women from abuse,our arts from post traumatic morbidity (which started with the abused women not getting care and their offspring raging artistically), and our sense of what real self respect is.
But i will step in here as a American, JASON your body is a sacred place for which in a sane world you should have safety, If you do your home work, you will find you have every reason to believe many of those fumes had mercury in them and you breathed them, as about half of such poisonings are from "aerosol" of heavy metal, if that does not work for your logic "intuitively" that's because folks don't understand metals can evaporate to gas and many get sick and crazy from breathing them, these same folks you have to trust to act nice on the streets every day all around you, who have not been so nice lately in processing their problems at home.
Go here below and buy EDTA, the FDA approved OTC for heavy metal removal from the body, which comes highly recommended for anyone working with Aluminum alloys in any situation. if after taking 3-4 pills of EDTA for about a week, you start to drop a lot of water from the gut area, which will in turn let your bladder fill larger, and result in taking longer urination s then you are used to, there is every reason to believe at some point you have been exposed to heavy metals had mercury poisoning.
Never let any one tell you your body is not as important as their Warranty Program can justify, you are not a bolt or a bottom line, you are a holy and sacred human, see the American constitution for more on this.
As well Rapid Jim gave you good advice, watch what you say, but don't let that shut you up, DO - just like our fore fathers Jefferson and Washington did, and plan your actions better.
Knowing you can never prove you got sick from the fire aerosol of the battery, but brother you can take care of your self, so you may better as well take care of those you have sworn to protect, which is also your self,,,,, and you can help shed light on a bad situation, but only calmly or you will lose your Validity in the eyes of those you wish to swoon to change.
As well do find a way for SCRAPPY to let their empathy shine on this, which they can not do if they are too busy defending them selves from you very justified rage.
As most of the folks there are good kinds folks, as most are, even if they are overwhelmed with changes in this country going down faster then they can keep up.
Not to forget, :DRAPID SANTA CLAUS  , here who spent a lot of time helping you, for no other reason then he is exactly not the kind of person your feeling many are now.
TWO GOOD THINGS THAT HAPPEN TO YOU IF YOU LET IT SINK IN
1. You have seen you really are a very special person who has had folks stop from their also overwhelming as heck day and say "brother a few folks give a dam about Jason"
2. you now know about EDTA, which will also clean crap out of your heart and help you live longer, as a ever growing group of folks rave about it stopping chest pains, plus it helps you drop water and metals, sorry to wreck your awful day, which i am sure you want no one to take from you, but you just got a chance to live longer and feeling better doing it.
3. bad events do not have to harm us, they can instead reveal a better way to the future, which is a train we all need to hop on these days.www.vitacost.com/mrm-cardio-chelate-with-edta/?prSrching=0FROM WIKI BELOW Medicine
EDTA is used to bind metal ions in the practice of chelation therapy, e.g., for treating mercury and lead poisoning.[10]
It is used in a similar manner to remove excess iron from the body.
This therapy is used to treat the complication of repeated blood
transfusions, as would be applied to treat thalassaemia. The U.S. FDA approved the use of EDTA for lead poisoning[11] on July 16, 1953, under the brand name of Versenate,[12] which was licensed to the pharmaceutical company Riker. Alternative medical practitioners believe EDTA acts as a powerful antioxidant to prevent free radicals from injuring blood vessel walls, therefore reducing atherosclerosis.[13] The U.S. FDA has not approved it for the treatment of atherosclerosis.[14]
Dentists and endodontists
use EDTA solutions to remove inorganic debris (smear layer) and
lubricate the canals in endodontics. This procedure helps prepare root
canals for obturation. Furthermore, EDTA solutions with the addition of a
surfactant loosen up calcifications inside a root canal and allow
instrumentation (canals shaping) and facilitate apical advancement of a
file in a tight/calcified root canal towards the apex. It serves as a
preservative (usually to enhance the action of another preservative such
as benzalkonium chloride or thiomersal) in ocular preparations and eyedrops.[15] In evaluating kidney function, the complex [Cr(edta)]- is administered intravenously and its filtration into the urine is monitored. This method is useful for evaluating glomerular filtration rate.[16]
EDTA is used extensively in the analysis of blood. It is an anticoagulant for blood samples for CBC/FBEs.
Laboratory studies also suggest that EDTA chelation may prevent
collection of platelets on the lining of the vessel [such as arteries]
(which can otherwise lead to formation of blood clots, which itself is
associated with atheromatous plaque formation or rupture, and thereby
ultimately disrupts blood flow). These ideas have so far been proven
ineffective;[17] however, a major clinical study of the effects of EDTA on coronary arteries is currently (2008) proceeding.[18] EDTA played a role in the O.J. Simpson trial
when the defense alleged that one of the blood samples collected from
Simpson's estate was found to contain traces of the compound.[19]
EDTA is a slime dispersant, and has been found to be highly effective in reducing bacterial growth during implantation of intraocular lenses (IOLs).[20]
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Post by gy6forlife on Apr 9, 2013 18:11:21 GMT -5
Thank you for that info,as I had know idea that those fumes could do such harm on me.I have only had the jug cut down on a lathe,to make it come to TDC!Like the factory one was.I will and do have a attorney on retainer for this whole ordeal now!!! As I has no idea of the danger that all that smoke/fumes could do such damage to me while or until I noticed it.I will let you know how it all the truth comes out,as no company can say that ever item they produce is 100% perfect and no way of it doing what it it did.BEWARE OF SCAPPY-=CRAPPY!!!!! THERE KIT BBK IS A 72CC NOT 80 LIKE THE REST MOST REPUTABLE DO FROM TAIWANESE.
Kind Regards,
Jason
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Post by Rebel on Apr 9, 2013 21:17:28 GMT -5
gyrforlife,
really I don't know of any genuine 80cc kits out there, all the sellers will round up the displacement, the 80 usually is 72cc, the 100 is often an 80. I hope it all works for you after you get it back together.
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Post by rapidjim on Apr 10, 2013 8:10:59 GMT -5
Thank you for that info,as I had know idea that those fumes could do such harm on me.I have only had the jug cut down on a lathe,to make it come to TDC!Like the factory one was.I will and do have a attorney on retainer for this whole ordeal now!!! As I has no idea of the danger that all that smoke/fumes could do such damage to me while or until I noticed it.I will let you know how it all the truth comes out,as no company can say that ever item they produce is 100% perfect and no way of it doing what it it did.BEWARE OF SCAPPY-=CRAPPY!!!!! THERE KIT BBK IS A 72CC NOT 80 LIKE THE REST MOST REPUTABLE DO FROM TAIWANESE.
Kind Regards,
Jason
I guess you can not read. www.scrappydogscooters.com/139QMB_50cc_Performance.html80CC BIG BORE KIT This kit includes everything you need to upgrade your 50cc 4stroke to 72cc. Many places commonly call this an 80cc kit. Bore diameter is 47mm. This is over a 60% increase in engine size. Expect overall engine performance to improve almost as much. Great deal. Fits most GY6 scooter ATV 139qmb ( QMB139, 139QMA ) engines. Check your engine number on your case. Works great with your stock head, and bolts right up with no modifications. Super deal, no one is lower than this! $69.95 The above is copied directly from their website. The ad information does state that is is 72cc. It is so easy to blame others for your mistakes and failures! Jim |
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Post by gy6forlife on Apr 10, 2013 14:40:18 GMT -5
Jim,
Explain why the piston doesn't go to TDC when it is braced and I have shown the pics of the 1.5mm in pin height?This as previously stated by the Administrator says that it should go to the top of the cylinder,and if
it doesn't I am loosing a ton of power and CI.and torque to boot?The factory high dome was cut out for the valve reliefs and was at TDC when it was in the engine,so we are back to what does one gain from buying a kit that has
this lower pin height?NOT MUCH !!!!AS i stated in a earlier post one can get a all the same as Crappy sells plus a choice of 3 cams(from stock to upgraded larger ones),and a new head with larger valves for cheaper than them.I just got my new thin metal head gasket and top end gaskets to put it all back together soon, in the mail to day from eBay from a reputable seller,and it measures out just perfect,instead of the thick double paper with aluminum in them middle head gasket they provide with there kit,even reducing the power and over all performance less and less.
Thanks,
Jason
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Post by gy6forlife on Apr 10, 2013 14:43:27 GMT -5
gyrforlife, really I don't know of any genuine 80cc kits out there, all the sellers will round up the displacement, the 80 usually is 72cc, the 100 is often an 80. I hope it all works for you after you get it back together. Thanks as I do need the it to work out this time or I am just going to burn the whole thing in my back yard!lol Jason |
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Post by craisin on Jun 19, 2013 15:26:42 GMT -5
Sounds like the barrel and piston you got was for a longer stroke crank eg 90cc 86cc real size
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Post by rocky88 on Jun 20, 2013 19:56:45 GMT -5
idk scrappydogs bbk's freaken ROCK!!!!!!!!!! dont know why your having issues. maybe you dont know whats up when doing builds. but i do know calling him crappy aint gonna get ya no were...........
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, here who spent a lot of time helping you, for no other reason then he is exactly not the kind of person your feeling many are now. 
CAN YOU HELP ME OUT MAN,AS i LOST ME JOB DUE TO NOT BEING ABLE TO GET THERE?ANY INF