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Post by gy6forlife on Feb 11, 2013 12:34:39 GMT -5
I have a VIP 49cc scooter that I bought new,I have over 10K miles on it and have recently bought a bunch of parts to get it back up to better than before. I have installed #85,#35 jets in carb,as well as replaced both the rubber diaphragms and cleaned the carb I installed a KOSO performance variator w/6 gram Dr.Pulley sliders,FYI the KOSO performance does come with new stock round rollers! I as well installed the rear Yellow (1500)rpm large and the three smaller clutch springs (1500)Yellow The belt was fine,as It was just replaced during last summer Now with that being said,does anyone know what might be causing it not to shift into the higher gear range?With the stock variator it did sometimes stay stuck in high and would kill the engine upon stopping,now with all this new stuff it wont shift up and I ran it up and down and all through out the throttle range,to no avail?Thanks for any and all input and information, gy6forlife What is the correct valve lash for the intake/exhaust on these,as I have never cracked the valve cover off it,but they are not making any noise?but I see on here a lot of others doing this religiously?And what does that approx. 1/2" pipe that comes off it go to?And for some reason,it has started to not shut off the engine with the key?or kill switch?
New Battery New tire Aftermarket air cleaner
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Post by Rebel on Feb 12, 2013 1:53:00 GMT -5
Valve lash is good at about .004 of an inch on both valves. Some will go done to .003 or up to .005.
Pull the cover off of your CVT and use a sharpie to mark the face of the variator so that you can see how high it runs up the ramp. Could be with a performance variator you nee a slightly longer belt.
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Post by gy6forlife on Feb 12, 2013 9:26:44 GMT -5
I did take the cover off and watch the belt travel up and down the front and rear pulleys,do you think if I install the stock type round rollers other than the Dr.slider type that they could be making it not let it go into high gear>? Thanks, jts
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Post by Rebel on Feb 12, 2013 15:36:00 GMT -5
I don't think it will, the sliders are really better bu you need the right ones. My mind is getting old and I don't recall if it is two grams heavier or lighter than the sliders need.
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 12, 2013 15:58:41 GMT -5
You may want to try heavier sliders or rollers if it is revving higher than you like. A contra spring of less strength would also lower operating RPM. Sliders should not prevent it from working properly, unless they were installed wrong. I have accidentally installed one in the wrong orientation before. I noticed before installing the vari though, IIRC because the ramp plate wouldn't close all the way. You could check for coil bind on the contra spring as well. I haven't seen it yet, but have heard others report it with some aftermarket springs. Coil bind is when the spring's coils are totally compressed against each other, not allowing the pulley to open all the way.
The fact that it had issues shifting with the stock variator makes me think taking the torque driver apart and cleaning, inspecting, and re-greasing it may be a good idea.
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Post by gy6forlife on Feb 12, 2013 16:07:00 GMT -5
I don't think it will, the sliders are really better bu you need the right ones. My mind is getting old and I don't recall if it is two grams heavier or lighter than the sliders need. Well I went ahead and removed the sliders,and put in a new set of roller,and did sand all the clutch bell inner housing with 40 grit,and the pads on the the clutch,as they were "shinned" over? I replaced the belt,and put in new 6 gram rolllers and it only picked up 2mph!!!!!,with the stock springs in it ,it would go 45 mph,and at 12K rpms all day long,for the last 12K miles I put on it?so that is why I figured all these new parts and yellow springs would make it take off faster,and give me more top end power,as well.To my dismay Scrappydog has not been able to figure out what the problem is for it not shifting in to high gear?,I am at the point of of just putting all back to stock and see what it does then,I can almost bet that it will run fine and fast again!!!!,its not that they have not tried,but I am just feed up with haveing to tear it down over 6-8 times now? with a new clutch and all the above item I bought from them>?They are at there end of telling me what to do to fix it from slipping on the clutch bell housing? ANY HELP OR INPUT IS GREATLY APPRECIATED AND NEEDED TO GET MY JOB BACK!!! kiND rEGARDS, jASON sPIDEL
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 12, 2013 17:11:23 GMT -5
How are you measuring RPM? 12,000RPM is wild for these motors. If it's really 12,000RPM you need to either get heavier rollers/slider and/or a softer contra spring in there and drop the revs or fix whatever is slipping.
If it were the clutch/bell slipping you should never get full engagement, and I would think RPM would not be steady at any point. You should see glazing on the clutch shoes and bell and possibly discoloration from heat on the clutch bell. If the belt is slipping you should be wearing belts fast, noticing lots of belt dust, and seeing evidence of leftover belt on the drive faces.
If you aren't seeing those signs, just start out by using the heavier rollers/sliders and or softer contra spring. Gotta get those revs down. Only way I can imagine running at 12,000RPM with any real success is to have a ported/big valve head, larger carb and intake, and a big ole cam. I'd think parts would start failing quickly at that RPM. I had the head, carb, and a performance cam when I had a 4T and it peaked closer to 9,000RPM. With a stock cam/head you'd wanna be closer to 7,500-8,500RPM I'd think.
If you're using a stock tach, consider a Trail Tech TTO tach. Pretty cheap and easy to install. I use them on 2 of my scoots and I've been very pleased.
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Post by gy6forlife on Feb 15, 2013 17:44:11 GMT -5
Installed BBK 49cc to a 80cc,all went fine,started up and idles great,but there is something not right,in the carb,as it want to miss out and bogg down at 4-5K and 7-8K rpms, I upgraded the jets to #85 and #35 air/fuel mixture screw is at 3 turns out?,new diaphragms,both,should I put the stock air filter on?Seem to me that would defeat the whole purpose of my BBK and kill some of the power,but I dont know what else to do to it,it has all the stock variator back in it and roller,and all stock springs in clutch now,I have yellow's(1500) but it would not even go the 10 mph with the stock 49cc engine in it,maybe there is some dirt in the carb,I will clean it again and blow out all the holes as I did before?Stuck with spuddering scooter,? gy6forlife
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 15, 2013 20:09:41 GMT -5
You may want to try a larger main jet.
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Post by Rebel on Feb 16, 2013 0:10:03 GMT -5
yeah a big bore kit needs a bigger main jet, try a 90 or 92.
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Post by gy6forlife on Feb 16, 2013 10:45:05 GMT -5
UPDATE: OK,I took carb apart and cleaned it again,and put the both stock jets in it,now dont forget I just did install a BBK from Scrappy's,and it is a 80cc kit,I bought the recommended jets #85 and #35 for the install.With the larger jets in,the engine ran like crap!As I knew the install was correct and timing was perfect,as I made up a rig to hold the flywheel on TDC and the when the cam was installed it never moved a mm from when it was all taken apart to when it fired up after the bowl was full of fuel.FYI if anyone is going to do one of these,I would recommended taking pictures of each part before taking it off,so you can have references or use the ones that Scrappy has up on there place,as I know I had a few senior moments myself,as this was the first time I had ever been inside the internals of such a little engine,the hardest part was the cam,getting it in with the holes aligned up while holding the timing chain was a beitch!!!!! and not very easy,so be prepaired to take your time there as I did take the whole rear assemble out and had it up on the bench,this is the way to go,just a few lines and one large bolt for the engine and it all slide right out from under the scooter.Having it at arms height was enormous help and not to mention a ton less forgiving for us older folks,then laying on the ground or pads on the floor.So today if it does well and goes into high like it seems to be doing,I will install the performance variator and sliders to help with it taking off faster.
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Post by Rebel on Feb 16, 2013 12:54:24 GMT -5
What size ar ethe original jets. Glad you got it running better.
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Post by gy6forlife on Feb 17, 2013 12:00:27 GMT -5
Hello, I installed the after market jets pet the "suggestions of the Tech" at Scrappy,and it ran like crappy!!!! after putting in the stock jets it did not have any "bogg"issues and went thru thru the RPM ranges as normal,but after putting it under a load of ridding it ,it just did not come up to the desired RPM'S it just kind of slowly gets up to about 20mph,and this is after I installed a BBK 80cc kit,from a 49cc.I had all the nice performance stuff in the left side,It is now put back to stock as I thought maybe one of the items may have been causing the something to slip and not engage.I have cleaned the carb and blew it out all the passages two times now and I have a extra CDI one stock and the other Racing type blue one,I have tried them both to no avail.Can anyone please help me out here,as this is my only transportation I have even though it 36* here in Indiana. gy6forlife/jason
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Post by 90GTVert on Feb 17, 2013 13:00:37 GMT -5
I would suggest dialing in one thing at a time. If you try to sort out the carb and CVT all at once it can be confusing, especially if you aren't really used to tuning one or both components. You can go back and forth and slowly work on both the CVT and carb, but change one thing at a time for your test runs. For example, change roller weight and run it. Change a jet and run it. Don't change a jet, roller weights, and clutch springs all at once or you may not know for sure what's doing what.
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Post by gy6forlife on Feb 17, 2013 14:26:46 GMT -5
That is what I have done now is put it all back to stock except for the "BBK kit to 80cc,and had to install the original jets to even get it to run correctly?But Scrappy Tech tells me it should need the 85 and 35 jets he recommended?but it doesnt run fluently with them,it just has hardly any power once its on the ground,and before with the little 49 I could feel it change into high gear,now I am not even feeling that now ?I am going to install the factory air box and then it will be totally stock but the 80cc BBK?I am a a total loss on what else to do,the little engine ran like a champ for over 12K miles and was starting to blow out blue smoke/oil,and I figured it I was going to fix it I just as well go with a litttle bigger cc engine,and now it wont hardly pull past 20mph,where I had the 49cc goin around 43mph!Thanks for your help and any suggestions you may have to fix my scooter. Kind Regards, Jason/gy6forlife
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