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Post by defrogi on Sept 14, 2012 10:03:37 GMT -5
I have a Metro Duo 50cc with a BBK (52mm), 24mm carb, performance exhaust, performance variator and performance clutch. I've tried Gates belts, Kevlar belts and Bando belts. Since last March the scooter has shredded 12 belts. The crankshaft was replaced at the beginning of March and since then all the trouble. The belt rides up high enough on the variator to rub against the starter bendix cutting a groove on the inside edge/top of the belt. This creates a lot of heat and then the belt shreds. I can put a "stock" variator on and the belt doesn't hit the bendix. Prior to the crank being replaced I had run the performance stuff for over 5000 miles with no problems with a Bando belt. The local scooter shop is at a loss as to why this has started happening. The crank is a higher grade with much better bearings but that's the only thing that has been changed since getting 5000+ miles on the Bando belt. Any ideas?  ? |
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Post by Rebel on Sept 14, 2012 15:52:53 GMT -5
Try a belt that is a few mm shorter and see if that helps.
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Post by defrogi on Sept 16, 2012 10:05:01 GMT -5
Where would you find a belt like that? It uses the 669-18-30 belt and I've never seen one a couple of millimeters shorter. I HAVE seen one a couple of millimeters longer though.
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Post by Rebel on Sept 17, 2012 12:42:06 GMT -5
Having never needed one I do not know who might carry one. I just seems to me that if the belt is ridin up high enough to hit the cover and tear up there are three things to do. Go back to a stock variator. Modify the cover. Get a belt that can not travel as far up the pulleys.
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Post by defrogi on Sept 17, 2012 15:21:45 GMT -5
I ran over 7000 miles with the same set up and never had this kind of belt problem. I've put a stock variator on and the belt doesn't rub the starter bendix. The acceleration isn't what it used to be and the top end is really down. I'm just trying to figure out WHY when the only thing changed is the crankshaft.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2012 1:12:06 GMT -5
is there any chance the vari is further out now, createing a different pull and thus higher rise
as well kevlar belts are a hoax, kevlar is not a good rope, many have found they have a very short life.
also many gates belts are fakes.
I am told tho there are not many fake gates floating around as used to be.
good luck with the mystery
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Post by defrogi on Sept 18, 2012 16:28:37 GMT -5
I've brought up the "alignment" issue with the shop that ordered and installed the crank. They claim it is the way it is supposed to be but I think variator is out further now causing excess heat from the rubbing AND causing the belt to ride up on the inside edge of the variator making contact with the starter bendix. The best belt I've had was a Bando belt.
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Post by Rebel on Sept 22, 2012 3:15:35 GMT -5
use a straight edge and see if it is out of alignment
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Post by gy6forlifelol on Jan 2, 2013 13:12:13 GMT -5
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Post by gy6forlifelol on Jan 2, 2013 13:46:11 GMT -5
I think Just my opinion but ,I think the place that put the crank in did there job correct.However,the actual crank is the issue,it has to be sticking out a .mm out that side that you are melting all the belts with,do you have a aluminum fan,or plastic one,You could always with some type of way just like dude said cut the whole area out that ist hit m on the case,now the Bendix type starter mechanism,that will be a challenge,soI say the aftermarket crank is cut not as far back,or down as a original,why did you change crank?Upgrade to top end to take the extra pounding?As I am about to do a 80cc top end kit,own exhaust,re-jet n now and filter,belt,Bat,tire,bla bla bla,money...they rap us on parts,if I wasnt wanting to go to work for the next two month I buy from USA Seller,if not China,same parts,just better QC. checking outgoing and incoming parts,them varriator tools,are bad about after there hot they are dumped on top of thousands of em and threads get melted that you cant even file em back in.lol..So it 30 for usa"seller:"and 4.75 For China? ? I've brought up the "alignment" issue with the shop that ordered and installed the crank. They claim it is the way it is supposed to be but I think variator is out further now causing excess heat from the rubbing AND causing the belt to ride up on the inside edge of the variator making contact with the starter bendix. The best belt I've had was a Bando belt. Attachments:
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Post by Rebel on Jan 2, 2013 15:51:44 GMT -5
Terra is an advocate of putting high quality boric acid into your crank case. He prepares
it properly before putting it in. The effect is to reduce friction in the motor, extend the life and power of the motor.
I have not used it myself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2013 4:10:50 GMT -5
There is a great record cover on a fleetwood mac album showing a big monkey on a beach being offered a chunk of cake or some wisdom written on paper
so the big monkey of course eats the cake, so goes it with boric acid, which is one of the more hi tech additives even in mobile 1
and one of the best things that ever happen to a cheap china bike.
Few things in the history of forums made more folks flee these forums then the psychotic social whipping the very kind folks who took the time to do real researce on this wonder stuff, and got burned at the stake for using big words to prove it. dam who would have thought--a snake oil that works.
Some folks get into engines because they have a insight, others because it the only thing they can do, and with in that latter group, was a even smaller sub group who got their fangs out to wipe this subject out, at the top of the list was a baby monkey named EARL at scooterdawg who banned me for no other reason then not being a throwback like himself.
All of the folks who proved this subject a grand idea, where some of the most educated folks to post and at least 30 folks left these forums forever over this subject, seeing that folks with self respect just don't hang around these places.
They were some of the most educated folks these fourms have seen, "Evil Genius" being one of them.
I put 2 table spoons of humco boric acid in every oil change, on my last bike i got 14,000 plus miles out of the engine before blowing a valve spring.
20 degree temp drop, half a db sound noise drop do to less friction
boron melts at 167 degrees into a liquid the oil, and turns the oil into a super lubercant,
this has been proven over and over again.
the epa even gives tax credits to fleet users and insuance copanys discount warrentys on ehgines.
just add it to a hot engine.
but a monkey. would rather run with the heard.
Tho he mostly disappeared too, after being made a complete ass of, by rednecks ,,,,the very wise man at mainly scooter did some great work to prove all this and would most likely discuss it with you.
of course EARL at scooter dawgs deleted these videos just like the military monkey in planet of the apes, who saw a human write his name in the dirt, humans being too dumb to do that, he erased it with his foot, before other monkeys saw the human do what humans can't.
The Dept. of Transpertation proved this product works
from aircraft mechanics to nascar many folks use this.
IF DOUG CAN FIND THE "HOW TO THREAD" I POSTED HERE i WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT POSTED.
Brother this was not a smart ass anserw to your question, but a lot of folks turned their backs on "community" for ever over this subject, over the treament they got for even talking about it. because guys like EARL run loose. and sadly the rednecks many times are all thats left, on those forums.
but there some real adults here on rebels forum, many, just look at the family talk.
MEAN while watch your self on the forums, there are a large group of folks on them who kill anything that vibrates faster then they do in complete jealiously
how many guys you know who even get 10,000 miles on a scooter, most is about 5-8000.
tho their egos will tell you different.
glad my suddjestion about Vari houseing being off showed some fruit.
good luck brother, ride wise, and ride safe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2013 4:57:41 GMT -5
I reposted this so i could book mark it
I have no comments about this post not already said, but what gos un finished is all the folks who got hurt proving it.With the advent of moisture in the oil, the boron adheres to the metal of the engine.
I think it can trans-locate tho, i think the boron can move, but i am not really sure.
as of this writing the "Terra Oil " is being used by many with good results, tho one guys bikes found it so slippery it slid past his wet clutch, but that proves again it works, no one but him has had this happen, I think the stuff made his already bad clutch show up on the radar.
boric acid is not a acid, it is a ester, it was named acid as a way to name the different by products of boron, one had a pf of 5.6, they named it the Acid by product, i have put pure boric in my mouth, it was like baby powder.
facts are these if you want your bike to save gas, go faster, and run cooler, put a round tablespoon of boric ester (acid) in you crank case.
I got the HUMCO brand at CVS
THIS THREAD IS FOR FOLKS USING BORON ESTER FOR THE FIRST TIME OR FOR THE SECOND TIME TO THEIR GY6 MOTOR
WELL SCOOTERIST ALL
We have moved past the unknown frontier of using boric acid.
We have come to see boric acid is not really a acid but a ester of boron.
We have seen that it is the secret of Mobil 1 oil and other oils, but they use a inferior kind of boron to protect themselves from copyright infringement. so our home made is better the mobil1.
We have seen much faster bikes WITH LESS GAS USE.
Cooler temperatures if we don't high rev.
Less motor vibration.
Less strain on battery and start motor at start up with higher idle speeds.
And attained the quietest engines per single piston on the road.
As EPA, DOE and DOT said we would, with out damage.
From the rough reports, if we had used nano boric we would have a even 20 percent greater gain, but for most of us, 60 percent gain for only 8 cents was great enough, and for me one, it will stay that way.
Now we gotta change that oil----or do we, from what i read all over at the very least you can use boric oil twice as long,
The reports are fuzzy on twice as long usage, but boric is known to reduce acid sulpher build up,
because it SLOWS break down of oil from acids.
I am right now using "Dollar" store Premium oil/Castrol blend snyth with 2 level tablespoons humco boric, this is the second time I have used boric.
I will again use the dollar store premium/castro blend mix,
1 Half qt Dino and 1 half qt castrol snyth oil
I will use 50/50 dino/snyth mix because despite snyth being a better oil, a dino/snyth gave me better performance then snyth alone
DO NOT USE AMSOIL OIL.
HOW TO DISSOLVE BORIC ACID
NEVER DISSOLVE BORIC WITH A CHEMICAL SOLVENT OR WATER
The best and only way to dissolve boric is with the heat of your engine,
Boric acid is exactly like candle wax, with heat it becomes a liquid.
THE TABLESPOON OF WATER CREATES A CHEMICAL REACTION TO ADHERE IT TO METAL
Solvents will destroy your seals
put 2 level tablespoons and 1 level level tablespoon water in oil bottle ,,,,shake room temp container for 2-3 minutes add not more then 750 ml to case.
CHANGING OUT BORON OIL
run the old oil hot,
put a pan with ice cubes to cool oil in it under the bike.
remove oil fill plug-with long wrench as to not burn fingers remove drain plug and let drop into pan and let bike drain.
after drain, put kill switch on and turn engine over a few seconds to move out excess oil.
OPTIONAL
With bike tilted towards oil drain, with a reversed vacume or carb cleaner straw secured so it can not fall into oil inlet, spray deep into oil fill to remove oil on bottom of case, this will blow/push out a lot of grunge that was there for a long long time-BORIC OIL OR NON BORIC OIL TO BLOW THAT SLUDGE OUT IS A GOOD IDEA. BUT SOME THINK CARB SPRAY WILL HURT SEALS, computer spray will work too.
as drained oil cools pull drain plug up from old oil and clean filter screen and plug, re install just tight, don't over tighten.
To 750 ML of dino/snyth oil with 2 level tablespoons boric and a tablespoon water, shake like heck 5 mins, install oil and ride a full thirty mins.
I have said these things FOR CHANGING OUT FIRST BORON OIL USED, TO SECOND NEW QT. because it worked for me
I will add to or subtract from this thread as more folks add info.
PS nice thing about boron oil is the dam drain plug turns in easier then with non boron oil.
SIMPLE RECIPE
ADD 2 LEVEL TABLE SPOONS BORIC AND 1 TABLE SPOON WATER TO 50/50 MIX BLEND OF DINO/CASTROL SNYTH OIL AND RIDE BIKE A 1/2 HOUR
THE USE OF BORON OIL IN SCOOTERS DID NOT COME EASY, MANY FOLKS RISKED THEIR ENGINES AND THEIR REPUTATIONS TO BRING THIS WONDER TO THE WORLD OF SCOOTERS AND THOSE FOLKS WHO RIDE THEM.
A REAL ROUND OF THANKS MUST ECHO DOWN THE BACK ROADS AND CITY STREETS OF SCOOTER-DOM FOR THOSE FOLKS WHO HELPED BIRTH THE WAY OF THIS IDEA AND GIFT FROM THE MOTHER EARTH.
THANK YOU
Senior Scientist Ali Erdemir of ARGONNE LABS www.anl.gov/Media_Center/Argonne_News/2007/News_070815.pdfkulikow.com/Publications/Patents/....t%205431830.htmwww.topspindesign.com/tw/media/document/tsd_oil_additive_test_report.pdfMAINE PEACE SCOOTERS AND QUALITY PARTS mainelyscooters.com
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Post by terrilee on Jan 3, 2013 9:22:01 GMT -5
i've been using BA for about 1 1/2 yrs, maybe a bit longer.
at 1st i thought i got, a lot better torgue ,
all i do know is my oil stays cleaner longer,
even at 800 miles of use , still looks pretty damn clean.
i do have one of the fastest STOCK 150cc's
i have ever seen, or read about.
{this may have NOTHING to do with BA tho}
i think, no scientific test to prove, except my hand,
that my engine runs cooler.
8200+ miles and runs as strong as ever.
well, i could use a new belt, and slider, im sure
just because of age. But being this is my only transport,
im not gonna F with it. ifna it aint broke, dont fix it.
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jmkjr72
contributing staff
Commander 132nd Northern Cav. Division
Posts: 2,779
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Post by jmkjr72 on Jan 3, 2013 18:32:17 GMT -5
shim the varatior so it doesnt ride all the way up
sounds like the left a shim out when they put it back togehter or put the shim in the wrong spot
when you look at the belt with the engine off
is it resting all the way down on the varatiro drive boss
if not it is 100% a missing or misplaced shim
did you notice a loss in take off after the new crank
the shim or shims need to be between the end of the boss and the drive face
some people put them behind the drive boss on the varatior side to try and get some more speed but this is a draw down to doing that
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