CY50 T3 & the EPA... are we now screwed ?

[noday]

purchased a CY50 T3 2011 model from GSMW. It was delivered Monday.

I started the PDI yesterday. All was well. It cranked right up with no problem. I let it run for a few minutes then turned it off and started to work.

pulled the rear body panels down to the frame. checked bolts. no lose ones. most had a white threadlocker. the pop was easy to feel when they started to turn. changed oil, etc.

pulled off manifold & carb and valve cover.

disconnected and discarded all the EPA lines.

noted the intake had 2 nipples. one for the inline gas valve & one for the pollution control.

noted something odd I had not seen before. a spring covered hose going from the carb bottom to the crank case at the forward end of the variator case ?

as it turned out the line did not go the the crankcase but ended with a square metal block with a a slot head screw in the bottom and had a nipple to the air on the backside.

I proceeded and pulled the valve cover, head, cylinder case and piston.

I then installed a new 47mm bbk from Scrappy.

this was uneventful.

next I took the carb to rejet for the BBK.

I then looked at the carb carefully. The spring covered hose appears to be for regulating air into the carb possibly to replace the function of the A/F ratio screw











Then I had a WTF moment.

No screw heads on the float bowl.

they used some type of shear head tamper resistant screw that can not be removed easily.

looks like the EPA has us.

no way to remove the float bowl cover.

I have a drill press in my workshop, but no way to hold the carb to try and drill out the heads. these screws are small so there is no room to play with.

I have not seen an easyout small enough to use here.

if this is mandated by the EPA then there will be a big upsurge in replacement carbs.

no changing jets and no cleaning jets.

I guess I will just order a new aftermarket 20mm carb to go with the bbk & uni type foam filter I have.

second surprise.

scoot has 12" wheels 100/60 tires (16.9" diameter)

I was planning to up to a 120/70 (18.7" diameter) set of tires but there is only 1" clearance from the front of the rear tire to the motor.

so it looks like perhaps 110/70's (18.1) which will leave 1/2" clearance from front of tire to the rear of the crank case.

any thoughts on this new carb version ?

[bluefront]

The rubber line with the spring is simply a drain hose for the float bowl. The screw on the bottom has been known to fall out....draining the float bowl. Put some silicone rubber over the end to prevent that from happening.

I've heard of these new tamper resistant ( ) carbs.....first time I saw one. I think the morons who came up with this sort of crap, probably sell carbs on the side......

[Rebel]

They just won't leave people alone will they. Looks like it is still a screw, just one that is tamper resistant. Resistant does not mean impossible. I think I'd try drilling that head off and see what is under it. Worse case would be that you will have to order a carb.

Mighty short bowel on that carb.

[noday]

I drilled the heads off. took me a couple of days to get over being PO'd.

had to make a jig to hold the carb to drill in straight and square.

the smooth screw head is countersunk into the carb body and there is still a small tit residual from the breakaway right in the center. head only is about 1/16" thick.

pretty easy to skive off the head even when ground smooth and punched before drilling.

of course the screw is harder than the carb body metal so if you wander the bit off it will drill the edge and not the head.

any way it went OK. less hassle than I expected.

now I need a few screws and stronger glasses.

can't see the size markings on my main jet set

[Rebel]

If you have the small bits, you can go here and look at the charts to compare bit size and jet size to get an idea.

It would be nice to see photos of the jig you made to hold the carb.

[noday]

Thanks Rebel, will post some pics later today.

the numbering on the jets is exceedingly small and fine.

It takes a magnifying glass to even see that there is a size stamped & to read the size.

I can understand why some people may think they have jets not marked for size

[Rebel]

Oops, I forgot to put the link in my last post;

HERE

[noday]

thanks for the link rebel.

1/8" is about the smallest bit I use on any regular basis. I ordered a cheap small index set of bits #60 thru #80. it would be nice to have a set of small hole wire gauges, like a feeler gauge, to size unmarked jets.

here are a few picks. The jig was quite simple. I happened to find an old wood working vise laying around. It is latge enough to hold and stabilize the carb. only problem is the bottom is not flat. so I used a couple of strips of 1/2" plywood as bottom shims. that leveled it up ok. the carb fit but was very hard to position and hold in the wood vise jaws, so I made another shim about 2" square and drilled a 1" hole 1/2 way thru to hold the intake carb barrel. that made it easier to hold in position while the wood vise jaws were tightened.

my drill press is a small bench top type, so the table is small. not enough space to use hold down dogs + no place on that wood vise to clamp. should have used a C clamp.

the over all combo was much more stable than the carb alone.


side view



angled view



another



another



countersink lined up



carb after screws drilled out. holes a bit ragged but over all intact



what was left of the screws



should have taken it slower. the screw heads were fairly hard and still caused the bit to skive a bit on 2 or the screws.

still have to pick up replacement screws.

[bagga]

could you have slotted the screw heads with a dremmel and then use a screwdriver to get the screws out? or were the heads too small?

[noday]

probably....

I did not have a thin cut off disk at the time.

that residual head is countersunk so using a cut off will also slot the carb metal around the head.

the smooth screw head is only about 1mm thick so it is not that big a deal drilling them.

in retrospect: use a very small countersink bit to start & then go up in size.

I thought the heads were of "normal" thickness so actually drilled deeper than needed.

only found out after all the heads were off and the bowl was off.

even with a bit of dinging around the top of the holes, new screws work fine with a washer.

the carb is quite useable.

[texas]

Excellent, like yourself I have been looking for reviews on the T-3. You have given the most information of anyone with your thread. Thank you, hope you keep putting these great post with the great photo's on the forum. I was thinking about going the route you did with GS Motors. Then I found your thread and I feel even better about that decision.

[Rebel]

Welcome texas,

Jun 22, 2011 17:11:55 GMT -5 texas said:

Excellent, like yourself I have been looking for reviews on the T-3. You have given the most information of anyone with your thread. Thank you, hope you keep putting these great post with the great photo's on the forum. I was thinking about going the route you did with GS Motors. Then I found your thread and I feel even better about that decision.

We all appreciate when somebody goes to the extra effort to post and share what they find out. Photos always help too.

[fox]

No offense noday but I think you should get a new carb that already has bowl screws and an adjustable idle mixture screw. They are pretty cheap on eBay. Just make sure you get one with an accelerator pump.

www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=GY6+50cc+carburetor&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Idle mixture screw:

[noday]

thank you Fox. I did that the day I made the post. the factory stock one does just fine with new bowl screws, except it was jetted 30 idle and 70 main. way too lean and the needle does not have a C clip adjustment

kept the stock one as a backup.