Carino died - 8700 miles

[philr54]

Riding home Fri evening when the scooter started running like it was out of gas. I was sure it shouldn't be empty yet so I tried to start it a couple of times. No go, so I pushed it 1/2 mile up the road to a gas station, .95 gal to fill it. Normally I put in 1.5 - 1.7 gal. Took a lot of cranking to get it started (short bursts) but it started and seemed to be running good. A few miles further it happened again, let it sit a few minutes and it started up and we're off again. Same thing happened but now the starter is turning too slow to start, kick starter has never worked right so I left it locked up at a convenience store and caught the bus home.
Back the next morning with a fully charged spare battery and it won't turn over, klik, klik and a couple of grunts and that's all.
So the original Yuasa battery is toast, the starter appears to be jammed or stuck now, I have intermittent fuel delivery and no clue where to start. Temps are pushing 100 by 10AM until dark and the other two scooters aren't running either.
Yeah buddy, I'm sure havin' fun now!

[Rebel]

Not fun, sorry to hear about that, 8700 miles is a pretty good run though.

Sounds like it is time to get one of the others up and running. You might be working on the Carino for a while.

[gmoney]

Sorry to hear about the Carino but I'm confident you can get her going again. I posted awhile back about mine doing something similar. It turned out the vacuum diaphragm messed up and it wouldn't start. Turns out the diaphragm had somehow slipped out of the groove in the top of the carb. All I did was reseat it and that cured the no start issue. I also had a partically kinked fuel line which caused a small leak where it was kinked. I replaced the fuel line and that solved my hard starting issue after it sat for several days. As far as the starter being stuck it could be worn out, starters are fairly cheap so you could always replace it. Keep us posted on your progress. I know these things can be quite sensitive to fuel problems since the tank is below the carb. I've been tempted to just go ahead and take out the Mikuni fuel pump and put in and electric pump. That way I know for sure that the carb is getting fuel and enough of it to keep it running.

Gary

[Rocketdog]

Pull the plug and see if it will turn over. Ya gotta start somewhere.

RD

[kz1000st]

If you have to, spin it with the plug out and a socket on the fan nut. Get a helper to hold it on the head while you spin the ratchet. Or figure out a way to use an impact gun and socket as a spinning device. I have a step down adapter for my sockets.

[philr54]

Got the black scooter running. First priority is transportation. No ride - no work - no money - no cheap chinese parts and so on and so on.......

[Rocketdog]

Alright!!! Yeah, I'm familiar with the no ride, no cheap china parts senerio. Anyway KZ has a good idea to get started when you can. What did you do with that 250 you bought or did I miss something?

RD

[philr54]

After I got the Carino home, I tried once with a good battery to start it, got the same grunt click. Haven't touched it since. The 250 will start right up but, I'm working out a few problems with the cooling system. There are several people with these small frame 250s and we're sorting out the kinks.
Now that transportation is available, I can start on the Carino. I doubt it's anything serious, the engine has been running great.

[Rebel]

"I have intermittent fuel delivery"

Sounds like a good place to start to me. can be a cause of the early symptoms you mentioned.

[philr54]

And so it begins:
The battery will charge up to 12.6 V but the smart charger says it's only 68% so a new battery is in order.
First, checked for ground - ground tab (frame), engine case, starter case, all connections and cables - all good.
Checked for voltage - battery side of relay, starter side of relay, starter - 12+ V (starter side w/ starter button engaged).
Removed the starter motor, applied 12V and motor spins. Installed starter motor and applied 12V directly to starter motor, it gave a weak little grunt then nothing.
The engine turns over normal manually and the gear the starter engages turns with a very little effort. No kickstarter at present but I recently read a post on correctly installing it so I'll give that a try. It seems to me the motor is too weak to turn under load, but I don't know much about this (YET!)

[bluefront]

Does the scoot start with a known good (big) jumper battery hooked up? If it starts with the jumper, the starter motor is probably ok....and the issue may be simply a weak scooter battery, that won't charge properly.

Sometimes there's an issue with the battery cables (both positive and negative) at the connector ends. They may look ok, but the crimps or the solder may have failed.

All three of my scoots usually check at 13V or so, after sitting over-night without being hooked to a charger. That's a way to test the battery.......but the best way is with a load tester. Some places will do a load test on the battery for free......

[kz1000st]

Well??? What's happening Phil?

[philr54]

OK, I got the kick starter on, aligned, and lubed. Hooked up a portable jump starter, put a little gas down the intake and kicked it over. It tried to start - 23 kicks later it started. Everything seems to be working except the starter motor. So I'm waiting on parts.
Meanwhile I need to go over the fuel delivery system and find out why it stalled out in the first place.

[Rebel]

you are getting power tom the starter?

[philr54]

Yes, I bypassed the relay and put 12V directly to the starter - no spin.