|
|
Post by kliff on Jun 23, 2009 17:03:13 GMT -5
Yup....size does matter! At least when variable ratio'd pulley ae concerned. And the bigger the better on the outside diameter of your primary drive. So lookey here guys, this is what I've got to show you about the OEM and Podigy variators. Outside diameter of the faceplate, fixed, or fan side, is virtually identical. BUT, the inside half, the Prodigy is bigger, by about 7.5mm! That's big in this game! and BOTH pulley halves have a different taper, so full use of that 115mm OD can be used. We are now talking higher top end, at lower revs, without affecting low end performance guys. We are also talking lighter assy for the Prodigy unit, which meand we can use maybe 1 gram heavier weights, without affecting acceleration, but guaranteeing that top end closure of this sheave assy, and full use of it's potential. Since gears have been scarce as "hen's teeth," I bought 2 of these, on for Doug's engine, one for my Silver Scootin' You'll notice the face is also cut, for vetilation, to cool the belt, as the fan blade hieght has been lowerred to reduce parasitic drag...more seat of the pants, git down and boogy!   Right now these are available from Autotech355 cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hi-end-Racing-Variator-for-Honda-GY6-PGO-ATV-Quads_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a570Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4ce9c7271aQQitemZ330339657498QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesThere ya go jr, all the info I got so far. I'd recommend an 842 belt,too. |
|
xs650
Non-Com
Lance Corporal, 3rd Mixed Mechanized Close Combat Forces
Posts: 133
|
Post by xs650 on Jun 23, 2009 18:44:21 GMT -5
Kliff, I couldn't read your stock pully very well, so here it is tweaked  Is that angle 14.5 or 19.5 on the new one? |
|
|
|
Post by kuzikood on Jun 23, 2009 21:57:12 GMT -5
geeze do i really need to go faster im already hittin 65 down hill do i really need to do that uphill too .......wait yes..... yes i do ..... ok preach on brother!
|
|
xs650
Non-Com
Lance Corporal, 3rd Mixed Mechanized Close Combat Forces
Posts: 133
|
Post by xs650 on Jun 23, 2009 22:39:18 GMT -5
The new one looks like a flatter angle in the picture, but the pictures are at an angle so it's hard to tell.
19.5deg/side = 39deg total which would be rough on a 30 degree belt. I think belt life will suck with that angle.
A steeper angle would require more variator sideways movement to move the belt an equal distance up or down. And, the variator has to move the belt even further up and down because of the larger diameter.
How do they get the extra 30% horizontal travel on the variator to do that?
I know Kliff can measure an angle, I'm just trying to figure out the rest of the story.
Is the real reason for the fan blades being trimmed that the variator has to move further horizontally?
|
|
|
|
Post by Rebel on Jun 24, 2009 1:03:52 GMT -5
On some forum I read an article about tweeking your variator and it was suggested to regrind part of the ramp angle to change the speed your belt will move up the pulley. I don't think it was a problem having a smaller contact with the belt and pulley by their comments. It seems to me that you might need a longer belt with this variator.
|
|
|
|
Post by kliff on Jun 24, 2009 6:27:37 GMT -5
The new one looks like a flatter angle in the picture, but the pictures are at an angle so it's hard to tell. 19.5deg/side = 39deg total which would be rough on a 30 degree belt. I think belt life will suck with that angle. A steeper angle would require more variator sideways movement to move the belt an equal distance up or down. And, the variator has to move the belt even further up and down because of the larger diameter. How do they get the extra 30% horizontal travel on the variator to do that? I know Kliff can measure an angle, I'm just trying to figure out the rest of the story. Is the real reason for the fan blades being trimmed that the variator has to move further horizontally? I'm with you XS....30% is a bit hard to swallow, very hard. Especially considerring the increased, useable diameter is only about 7%. and the percentage differance of the pulley angle, 1, maybe 2% id calculated off thatat of a 360 deg circle...I dunno. When ever I start looking at ebay, or anywhere nowadays, I look for "smoke." Is there enough mechanical truth in the facts, to warrant my interest. NOT that my interest is gospel, NOPE! Just trying to plug facts, from and advertiser, into my experience curve, to see IF there might be some fire to go along with that "hype type smoke." Doug brought to my attention, severral months back, that he'd heard of an "over drive"variator. I started searching, and this is what I've come up with. My numbers are good, OEM 15.5 deg @ 107mm Prodigy 19.5 geg @ 114.7mm Belt life could very well be a concern, time will tell, or maybe we can locate some 40degree belts? The angle change is a necessity though, due to the finite amout of lateral travel the variator face has. If we want the belt to maintain full top to botton range, then increase the outer diameter, the angles must change. Advertising percentages.....LOL...I sorta doubt it. BUT 30% does catch your eye!LMAO Point being, Ebay, and the orient are not exactly known for the validity of their advertising claims. I search long and hard....just looking for smoke, and about 90% of my "finds," I prove bogus, to myself, before I even order, and pass on by. I had to have a couple of these, time will tell, if I buy more, but unless something goes way wrong... you can just about bet, I'll be keeping 1 or 2 on the shelf. BTW....thanks for the help with the pic. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by kliff on Jun 24, 2009 18:25:17 GMT -5
Hey.....XS, check your PM man!  |
|
|
|
Post by Rocketdog on Jun 26, 2009 19:44:24 GMT -5
I bought a DR. Pulley Variator. The width, larger than stock, and the angle of the drive plate are similar to what you describe Kliff. I'm using DR. Pulley weights, 11 grams at the moment, with a stock clutch and clutch springs. Ever since I started using the new Variator my entire CVT is running way hotter than stock. Even with a hole cut in the CVT cover. The weights look just fine, but the smell is of rubber. Kevlar and rubber I think. The pull and ratio of the stock Variator and DR. Pulley weights seems to work better. I don't think Kevlar will wear in at an angle. My opinion.
I'm thinking that the angle of the stock belt, 842-20-30, is not agreeable with the angles of the DR. Pulley Variator. 30 stands for total angle, 15-15, is that correct guys?
|
|
usfmarine
Non-Com
SJA, Scooter Rebellion
Posts: 74
|
Post by usfmarine on Jun 28, 2009 1:42:00 GMT -5
Perhaps I'm a little slow, but after reading through this thread I still do not know if this new variator size produces the intended results...
|
|
|
|
Post by Rocketdog on Jun 28, 2009 3:48:09 GMT -5
Confusing, ain't it USF. You would think it should. With mine it doesn't really work as well as you would think. Seems to be a belt problem. Or perhaps a combination of the belt and weights. It does change the over all the feel of the transmission though. I'm just not sure for the better. More experimentation is in order on my part.
|
|
usfmarine
Non-Com
SJA, Scooter Rebellion
Posts: 74
|
Post by usfmarine on Jun 28, 2009 11:04:44 GMT -5
I emailed Carlos and he told me that this variator would work on my 743-20-30 short case. I'd like to see if any of the advertising holds true in your guys' analysis.
|
|
|
|
Post by kliff on Jun 28, 2009 15:20:44 GMT -5
I'll tell you what, sometimes it is hard to stay up with some of this stuff... found this this morning.... orderred 1 to check measurements and angles... www.partsforscooters.com/GY6_4-stroke-Racing-Variator-Set?sc=11&category=74091It doesn't come with an outer fan plate.....mismatched angles from one side to the other.....I dunno....that's why I orderred 1, and I'll test it too...... cheap without the fan plate, but will it work... just another pea in the pot to get tested.....jeeeeeeez! |
|
|
|
Post by Rebel on Jun 30, 2009 13:50:23 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by kliff on Jun 30, 2009 15:54:35 GMT -5
I think.....and this is true shadetree surmizin', the teflon might be a good thing on an inner city scoot, where the rollers are traversing the ramps more often than those on a scoot in a more urban setting, where steady speeds may be maintained for longer periods of time, and the rollers stabilize. Thing is, I haven't yet seen as much wear on the weight side of the variator, as I have the belt side. I think the belt sides will be wearing out before the weight sides of either variators....but now you done thrown down with another variable to test....LOL. I gotta get 4 more scootes, just to try out all these combos....reckon I could get a gov'ment grant, in the intererst of seeking maximum scooter economy?  ? |
|
|
|
Post by kuzikood on Jul 2, 2009 8:01:48 GMT -5
somke of the city cops are driving scooters around here if im ever out and see one im gonna have to strike up a convo with them about performance and upgrades who knows maybe even get one to run me lol to check the accuracy of the speedo of course lol
|
|
?
